visual now wins, not music

[CrunchyTenor]

For further entertainment, I recommend exploring the career of one Mr. Lalo Schifrin, the film composer who generated the sounds that drove a thousand "exotic-sounding" movies.

You may find that what you imagine sounds "Roman", also sounds "Egyptian", "Native American", "African Ceremonial", "Aztec", etc etc etc, thanks to the bountifully-recycled gifts of this one composer, who wrote the same music for everything (with a little help from Cecil B. DeMille).

You may also compose your own Lalo Schifrin music on your piano or keyboard, by playing open 5ths with your left hand, up and down the keys, in a vaguely martial rhythm.

Vary tempo as needed, according to mysteriousness, ceremonial grandiosity, and imminent threat of virgin sacrifice (or boiling of hero in oil).

Collect check from film studio, repeat.

Why is Lalo Schifrin even mentioned? He wrote the score for the movie, which is not the source music for 81, 82 or 08. The "Spartacus" music Regiment is using is from the ballet and written by Aram Khachaturian.

Just for fun, Schifrin's most recognized piece wasn't from a movie (well, later it was), but from a TV series. He wrote the "Mission: Impossible" theme.

Oh, and for even more fun, Spartacus wasn't Roman. Though nobody is absoultely sure of his origin, many believe he was Thracian, related to the Greeks. I'm sure we could question the acuracy of Wikipedia all day, but here is their listing. Spartacus

And whoever suggested that music and drill (or dance) be composed at the same time is crazy, IMO. The drill and choreography should be a visual expression of the music. Yes, the drill writer, choregrapher and arrangers should work together, but music should still take the lead.

Garry in Vegas

Edited July 31, 2008 by CrunchyTenor

[IanKShields]

i agree with everything you said here, even the part about the cavaliers: for a very very long time i was certain i'd be able to pass a long and prosperous life without ever hearing a good cavaliers hornline, thats been a shocking development to me too.

but really, i was in the stands in jackson at 1/4 finals in 93 and everyone in my section had to strain to hear the quiet parts of stars show, which was roughly 3/4 of the show. we knew they were great, and i put them right there with the all time greatest corps, but everyone in the top 6 projected into the stands better than them. as good as they were (and that finals run was nearly perfect, as close to perfect as any performance i've ever heard) they were a lot better on cd and dvd than they were in person, because the mic's had the best seat in the house for them, being the closest to them. to me they were just a little too light and sweet for a football stadium, and it was their only real weakness. i got to hear everyone on tour live in 93 at one point or another, and phantom, blue devils, and even the cavaliers impressed me a lot more with sheer sound production than star did.

If it's true that Star '93 came across as under-projected (I don't know, I didn't hear them live), that must have been a decision made by the staff for that program, and an interesting one, since Star's hornline was probably most searingly powerful ever in DCI history up to that point. That brass line could generate its own weather system anytime it pleased.

Of course the '93 show was daringly understated, and stuck to Samuel Barber's original musical intent in a way that no drum corps has ever attempted before or since. It was done with the attitude a good orchestra takes into a performance, with the musicianship to match.

I think they banked a bit on everyone's awareness of that power being held in check, and harnessed to something completely different and forward-looking. It put a good listener on the edge of their seat in anticipation.

I'm reminded of something from the world of movies: the brilliantly reined-in performance of Peter Sellars in "Being There". You knew he could do manic slapstick and fill a room with outrageous characters, and yet here he was, seemingly doing nothing; you couldn't take your eyes off him, and you find yourself staring into his tiniest gestures, looking for the signs of what you know must be going on inside that quiet exterior.

Pretty high-falootin' reference, I know, but I think Star '93 deserves the compliment.

Sure miss 'em!

[IanKShields]

Why is Lalo Schifrin even mentioned? He wrote the score for the movie, which is not the source music for 81, 82 or 08. The "Spartacus" music Regiment is using is from the ballet and written by Aram Khachaturian.

Just for fun, Schifrin's most recognized piece wasn't from a movie (well, later it was), but from a TV series. He wrote the "Mission: Impossible" theme.

Oh, and for even more fun, Spartacus wasn't Roman. Though nobody is absoultely sure of his origin, many believe he was Thracian, related to the Greeks. I'm sure we could question the acuracy of Wikipedia all day, but here is their listing. Spartacus

And whoever suggested that music and drill (or dance) be composed at the same time is crazy, IMO. The drill and choreography should be a visual expression of the music. Yes, the drill writer, choregrapher and arrangers should work together, but music should still take the lead.

Garry in Vegas

Of course, Phantom is playing Khachaturian (+). Schifrin was brought up as a comic reference to the idea of things "sounding Roman" to us, as the previous writer had described.

Strictly an addendum. That's why I put it in a big fat "PS".

And, yes, Schifrin's non-exotica music (like "Mission Impossible") is also fun and plentiful. The guy was a bear of a busy writer.

He was also swift at incorporating Jazz into orchestral textures -- a talent he shared with some distinguished contemporaries like Goldsmith, Herrman, etc.

Jeez, he's a whole department. We should start a corps called "the Schifrin Alliance"!

[ShortAndFast]

but really, i was in the stands in jackson at 1/4 finals in 93 and everyone in my section had to strain to hear the quiet parts of stars show, which was roughly 3/4 of the show. we knew they were great, and i put them right there with the all time greatest corps, but everyone in the top 6 projected into the stands better than them. as good as they were (and that finals run was nearly perfect, as close to perfect as any performance i've ever heard) they were a lot better on cd and dvd than they were in person, because the mic's had the best seat in the house for them, being the closest to them. to me they were just a little too light and sweet for a football stadium, and it was their only real weakness. i got to hear everyone on tour live in 93 at one point or another, and phantom, blue devils, and even the cavaliers impressed me a lot more with sheer sound production than star did.

I was there all three nights in Jackson too, and I probably saw Star 3-4 times prior to that. I never had any trouble hearing what they were doing. I'm glad you came to appreciate it after listening to the recording, but plenty of us audience members were blown away sitting there in the stands. Their control and musicality, and their ability to make all that subtle playing clear when spread out all over the field, was just a tremendous achievement in marching brass performance.

And as for volume, I'd still say that THE CHORD in the middle of the show (after the percussion cuts out) has to be one of the loudest things I've ever heard. You can't really judge dynamics from the recordings, but that was quite a moment in the live performance.

[rut-roh]

And as for volume, I'd still say that THE CHORD in the middle of the show (after the percussion cuts out) has to be one of the loudest things I've ever heard. You can't really judge dynamics from the recordings, but that was quite a moment in the live performance.

And the fact that it was really the only moment in the show (along with the final chords) at that volume takes nothing away from their overall brilliance in relation to other hornlines that night as some seem to imply. They picked their spots volume wise and knocked them out of the park. It was everything it needed to be.

[Medeabrass]

Oh yeah, last thing, there was no "planetary shift" in stylistic musical approaches either pre or post '94; they were consistent. If that's the way you interpret them, that's on you. Since I was there, I can say the books were somewhat consistent year to year all the way through my time at BD. Wayne Downey wrote the music then, and he writes the music now. Yes, Dave Carico, Gino Cirpriani, and John Meehan teach brass performance somewhat different. But all of them are incredible instructors who have been and are capable of transferring an enormous repetoire of knowledge to their students, and I shouldn't have to mention what Wayne brings to a hornline after 35 years of experience.

Hey man, I don't know if you were reacting to me, but I didn't mean to imply anything negative as far as the shift I saw in BD pre and post '94. To me, BD was still excellent but in a different way after '94. Maybe the tactics were the same across the board, but the difference in arrangements and musical choices were evident to me.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Medeabrass

[mad_scotty]

I was there all three nights in Jackson too, and I probably saw Star 3-4 times prior to that. I never had any trouble hearing what they were doing. I'm glad you came to appreciate it after listening to the recording, but plenty of us audience members were blown away sitting there in the stands. Their control and musicality, and their ability to make all that subtle playing clear when spread out all over the field, was just a tremendous achievement in marching brass performance.

And as for volume, I'd still say that THE CHORD in the middle of the show (after the percussion cuts out) has to be one of the loudest things I've ever heard. You can't really judge dynamics from the recordings, but that was quite a moment in the live performance.

you know, its weird. i saw star live more than once, but since i was marching scouts that year it was a rare chance and i was usually outside of the 35 and low down. they always struck me as very very quiet, with good but not overwhelming power, especially compared to what i was hearing from madison in horn arc and from other corps (i got to see pretty much everyone up close either on the field or in the lot). i've talked to other people who also felt that star, for all their perfection, was very underwhelming when it comes to power. but a couple of people have told me they thought star was one of the loudest hornlines they have ever heard. part of me wants to discount that as "sure, you say that now" or "yeah, you really love that show don't you", but that doesn't work really. i wonder if they just had so much focus you were either in the sound cone or out of it, and people got a really different live experience from them. i know the blue devils used to be like that, the staff would literally give them a point in the stadium to focus their sound on, sit in the right seat and they would make your bones rattle, sit far enough off to the side and they were mere mortals. that was never the madison deal. we weren't trying to break a specific window in the press box, we focused our sound to the spot 20 feet behind the stands we were trying to push everyone from the 10 yard line to the 10 yard line back to, hair aflame, of course.

[Medeabrass]

. i wonder if they just had so much focus you were either in the sound cone or out of it, and people got a really different live experience from them. i know the blue devils used to be like that, the staff would literally give them a point in the stadium to focus their sound on, sit in the right seat and they would make your bones rattle, sit far enough off to the side and they were mere mortals.

I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but we always tried to aim 15 yards behind the podium (I think) or was that the crows' nest at Star hall? man, i'm getting old (I still have most of my music memorized though :) )

Another thing is we really only gave the audience 2 moments to feel that sustained power so you never really got the chance to verify "was that loud or really was that really effin' loud?" The big hit was also in the double arc form which may have contributed to focusing the sound more between the 45's. Also, we didn't go up to the press box until the last 4 counts of that chord so if you were up top you might not have gotten much until then.

[MoonHill]

I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but we always tried to aim 15 yards behind the podium (I think) or was that the crows' nest at Star hall? man, i'm getting old (I still have most of my music memorized though :) )

Another thing is we really only gave the audience 2 moments to feel that sustained power so you never really got the chance to verify "was that loud or really was that really effin' loud?" The big hit was also in the double arc form which may have contributed to focusing the sound more between the 45's. Also, we didn't go up to the press box until the last 4 counts of that chord so if you were up top you might not have gotten much until then.

Alls I know is that my experience at Madison that year is indelibly burned into my brain. A friend and I were coming up the backside of Veteran's Stadium, up those big concrete ramps they have back there, right when you guys hit the BIG statement, with the drumline explosionation.

Back there, behind the stands, with pretty much a solid wall of people and concrete between us and the field, that hit was astounding. That sound was our entire world for a few seconds there.

[mad_scotty]

Alls I know is that my experience at Madison that year is indelibly burned into my brain. A friend and I were coming up the backside of Veteran's Stadium, up those big concrete ramps they have back there, right when you guys hit the BIG statement, with the drumline explosionation.

Back there, behind the stands, with pretty much a solid wall of people and concrete between us and the field, that hit was astounding. That sound was our entire world for a few seconds there.

you know, on the whole volume thing, that drumline was LOUD LOUD!! i really don't have the knowledge to judge drumline to drumline nearly as welll as i do hornlines, but that star 93 drumline has always stood out to me. actually, with cadets and phantom also, that seemed a pretty good year for percussion all around.