DCI messes up embouchre?

[rayfallon]

Generally, if people say "that sucked" and ask you to do it again, it is because they saw too many ticks that ###### them off, or they noticed a general sloppiness in anything.

As anyone in corps can tell you, after you are told that you sucked, everyone dresses a little cleaner, plays a little more in context, and puts a little more into the next rep. "That sucked" is to be used when the problem is not a conceptual or understanding thing, but when it just "sucked".

You and I will agree to disagree on this one. With all due respect of course.

[G-horns]

In general, this is very true, but there are occasions where too much instruction is worse than too little.

It just depends on what you're trying to get out of a given rep/rehearsal. When I've been working with a group towards something specific and they achieve it, I will ask for a few more quick reps to "lock it in".

Other times I will not give any specific instruction myself, but ask the performers to pick, as individuals, what they're going to improve on the next rep. This encourages healthy self-criticism which is critical to creating great performers. Staff can't hear/fix everything, no matter how big or talented.

Another example would be reps to build endurance/confidence. If you're really pushing in that kind of atmosphere, too much specific instruction can have a major negative impact on attitudes and morale.

Finally there are simply the "brain fart" reps where lack of focus/effort cause mistakes. When that happens, I'm not gonna belabor the specific things that went wrong...the performers know perfectly well where they made mistakes and how to fix them. This is where the majority of "do it again" reps come from, in my experience.

When they achieve the goal, the next rep could be prompted by "That was good, let's do it again so we're sure it wasn't a fluke!"

Giving the performers an opportunity for self-criticism: "Would you accept that last rep??"

Building confidence/endurance: "Every time we do it, it gets better. Let's do it again."

So called "brain fart" reps: "General lack of focus! Let's do it again."

Hy used to tell us: "Don't allow yourselves the luxury of getting tired!"

Convey the message. Especially with an inexperienced group that might not have a clue.

[idontwan2know]

When they achieve the goal, the next rep could be prompted by "That was good, let's do it again so we're sure it wasn't a fluke!"

Giving the performers an opportunity for self-criticism: "Would you accept that last rep??"

Building confidence/endurance: "Every time we do it, it gets better. Let's do it again."

So called "brain fart" reps: "General lack of focus! Let's do it again."

Hy used to tell us: "Don't allow yourselves the luxury of getting tired!"

Convey the message. Especially with an inexperienced group that might not have a clue.

Yup, agree 100%.

[rayfallon]

When they achieve the goal, the next rep could be prompted by "That was good, let's do it again so we're sure it wasn't a fluke!"

Giving the performers an opportunity for self-criticism: "Would you accept that last rep??"

Building confidence/endurance: "Every time we do it, it gets better. Let's do it again."

So called "brain fart" reps: "General lack of focus! Let's do it again."

Hy used to tell us: "Don't allow yourselves the luxury of getting tired!"

Convey the message. Especially with an inexperienced group that might not have a clue.

I hear you... philosophically, is there not a world of difference between what you're saying, all of which I agree with, and "that sucks"???

In general, the folks on the field don't have the perspective to completely understand what happened to make something suck. They may know it wasn't together, but it's unlikely they know where it became unhinged. There's just too many people out there. Self criticism, which I agree with you is healthy, doesn't do you that much good unless you understand that you specifically (which puts the self in self-criticism) are the cause of the issue. Group self-criticism is really not all that healthy. Read "The Inside Game of Music" sometime.

"That sucked" feels to me (I understand that this is just me) like what you hear in an abusive or dysfunctional relationship. When I point out that no group should hear that they "sucked" while rehearsing, members will point out that I just don't understand, or don't get it. It reminds me of the classic "oh he (or she) just talks that way. I know what he means. He just wants me to do my best... yadda yadda yadda." There (for my way of thinking) just has to be a better way to explain issues with the hard work of 130 dedicated kids on a 100 degree day than that it sucked. You are well within your rights (Cookie Monster or anyone else who digs that approach) to disagree with me, as I am within mine to disagree with that technique.

Edited February 1, 2009 by rayfallon

[G-horns]

I hear you... philosophically, is there not a world of difference between what you're saying, all of which I agree with, and "that sucks"???

In general, the folks on the field don't have the perspective to completely understand what happened to make something suck. They may know it wasn't together, but it's unlikely they know where it became unhinged. There's just too many people out there. Self criticism, which I agree with you is healthy, doesn't do you that much good unless you understand that you specifically (which puts the self in self-criticism) are the cause of the issue. Group self-criticism is really not all that healthy. Read "The Inside Game of Music" sometime.

"That sucked" feels to me (I understand that this is just me) like what you hear in an abusive or dysfunctional relationship. When I point out that no group should hear that they "sucked" while rehearsing, members will point out that I just don't understand, or don't get it. It reminds me of the classic "oh he (or she) just talks that way. I know what he means. He just wants me to do my best... yadda yadda yadda." There (for my way of thinking) just has to be a better way to explain issues with the hard work of 130 dedicated kids on a 100 degree day than that it sucked. You are well within your rights (Cookie Monster or anyone else who digs that approach) to disagree with me, as I am within mine to disagree with that technique.

Ray, I think we're on the same page here. Proper communication gets results. Just saying that something sucks doesn't communicate a darn thing.

For example: Where did the music and/or movement "tear"? Who or what section should attempt to adjust? Instructors should instruct or go get a coffee.

[rayfallon]

Ray, I think we're on the same page here. Proper communication gets results. Just saying that something sucks doesn't communicate a darn thing.

For example: Where did the music and/or movement "tear"? Who or what section should attempt to adjust? Instructors should instruct or go get a coffee.

G-horn,

Thank you...

You've got it right, I think. When this activity works, it's a partnership. Watch the good staffs. They're rarely telling people that they're not getting it done. Good staffs are usually telling them how to get it done.

In my opinion, the corps I cited in my "you suck do it again" example was a finalist level membership with a sub-par staff. That shouldn't hurt anyone's feelings, as you don't know who I'm talking about. You can question whether I have the expertise to make an observation like that. Feel free.

Finally, if you encounter a staff, or an instructor, blaming their lack of success on their group not working hard enough, feel free to apply the famous Delucia "one raised eye-brow look" of skepticism. One thing about this activity - nobody, not Olympians, not nobody tries any harder when they're out there on the field.

Isn't it strange that the same staffs keep going back to the top of finals, no matter who they're teaching? Ya think they get the kids who "try the hardest?"

You can rationalize "that sucks, do it again" all you want. It's a symptom of a dysfunctional partnership. And it's flat out bad rehearsal management. If that's the best you can do, give them water and put them in the shade. It'll do them more good.

Edited February 2, 2009 by rayfallon

[Dennis Argul]

Rehearsal techniques need to evolve as much as the design, execution and performance aspects of the activity.

NFL players are no less tough than they were 30 years ago, but the game and players have changed, so the coaching techniques should adjust accordingly to maintain successes.

As far as the original intent of the post........drum corps really screwed my embouchure up, but that was mostly because I was a clarinet player taught by old school bugle players in the basement rest room of a Catholic school on an instrument that would have been used for spare parts on a Chevy Malibu if I was not playing on it! That and the fact that back in the days of symmetrical drill you almost always 'dressed' in one direction, so I cheated my chops to mostly one side! (I happened to be a side 2 guy the first few years on the field......)

But I would not trade that 'training' for a minute! There's lots I learned from the old school cats.

Always enjoy these threads!

Peace,

Dennis

[kuder]

I have heard from several people that marching in DCI, will ruin your lips if you wish to pursue a career in a professional orchestra? Is this true? I play horn, (mello for marching) and was just curious if this is true or not.

i play horn in school and mello for drum corps.

ive just been told that drum corps can mess up your lips because it can become a "blast fest" out on the field...

i absolutely love the activity though!...im hooked. =p

[G-horns]

i play horn in school and mello for drum corps.

ive just been told that drum corps can mess up your lips because it can become a "blast fest" out on the field...

i absolutely love the activity though!...im hooked. =p

Marching Band can become a "blast fest", too. If either one morphs into such a "fest", find another group because the instructional staff is doing something terribly wrong.

[Martybucs]

Marching Band can become a "blast fest", too. If either one morphs into such a "fest", find another group because the instructional staff is doing something terribly wrong.

You have to know your personal limits in this regard. You have to pace yourself and use self control in doing such exercises so that you don't cause injury to yourself.

Be smart about it. No one knows your chops better than you. Sure, always push to improve and to give your best performance as far as you are capable.

Don't just blast because someone has shouted at you, "MORE, LOUDER!"