TAFL Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Just watched some footage of the Kilties in '78, and they played matched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 I was thinking about the fact that today's drum corps allows, microphones, synths, sappy soap opera dialog, amps, etc., but if a snare line plays matched grip that's unacceptable. Does the percussion community really consider it unacceptable, or are you just saying that because traditional grip is currently in vogue? Although no one in DCI is playing matched these days, I don't know (I'm personally unaware, anyway) of any knowledgeble drum guy/gal (I'm talking legitimate pedagogues here, not some clown who marched somewhere for a year and is now out there spouting the party line) who considers it "unacceptable" to play a snare drum with both palms facing down. It's just the fad and fashion of the times. I do feel that traditional (when played well) has a certain visual elegance, and drum corps is a visual medium. Maybe a bit of that was lost during the 70s/80s "revolution." Folks missed it and went back for the traditional look. Could be as simple as that. Just a random thought... just my $.02 worth. peace, Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearlsnaredrummer77 Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 Does the percussion community really consider it unacceptable, or are you just saying that because traditional grip is currently in vogue? Although no one in DCI is playing matched these days, I don't know (I'm personally unaware, anyway) of any knowledgeble drum guy/gal (I'm talking legitimate pedagogues here, not some clown who marched somewhere for a year and is now out there spouting the party line) who considers it "unacceptable" to play a snare drum with both palms facing down. It's just the fad and fashion of the times.I do feel that traditional (when played well) has a certain visual elegance, and drum corps is a visual medium. Maybe a bit of that was lost during the 70s/80s "revolution." Folks missed it and went back for the traditional look. Could be as simple as that. Just a random thought... just my $.02 worth. peace, Fred O. I believe when Santa Clara went matched (again!) a few years back, they attracted a considerable amount of derision. At the time I was more worried about grad school, so I am not really an expert on that process. But I do think all of your points are valid-I think most informed folks agree that either grip works and that traditional has a certain look that is agreeable. So I'm not pushing a matched grip agenda anyway-I was actually more interested in the history of transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 ...I think most informed folks agree that either grip works... Yeah, I guess that's the bottom line of the whole thing. Thanks for the dialogue. Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedrumking Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Not sure if you are looking DCA but the Empire Statesmen played matched from '83 through at least '99. Won 4 drum titles playing matched under the instruction and direction of Tim Stodd, who was in the '82 Vanguard line playing matched. Tradish looks cool but I would need plenty of practice to take that on the field myself!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniSopGuy Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 ..............What were the origins of this movement, and what caused it's demise?................ For the basic question....... It is possible this is inaccurate, but what I was told about the thought process in changing to "matched" was that the "traditional" grip was great when drums were on slings which created a "tilt" of the drum so left palm up made sense. Just like a concert snare being tilted on a stand. But then, with the advent and wide spread use of the harness creating a flat, level playing surface, the angle of attack of the traditional grip was not considered the most bio-mechanically efficient position of the left hand. The right hand position was considered better with the new playing surface, and thus the "matched grip" came into use. Obviously this thought process has been proven wrong as evidenced by all of the lines now using "traditional". What was the demise of "matched" and why did it change back? I have no idea. Most respondants here seem to think it is because it is more visually pleasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I can't think of any snare line that's had any success with it. Yikes - what's your criteria/frame of reference for "success?" Those late 70's SCV and early 80's 27th Lancer snare lines were pretty #### good, I would think by just about anyone's standards. Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 What were the origins of this movement...? I recall reading somewhere that Fred Sandford (a visionary if ever there was one) took the SCV lines to matched grip in the seventies because he thought he could get them to play with a more consistent player-to-player style, as some of the players had come from different programs and there were lots of variations in their individual approaches to the traditional technique. Can anyone out there confirm this line of thought? Anyone else read/hear it anywhere? Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 (edited) I remember reading an interview with Fred Sanford back from '77 (when Vanguard switched to matched) saying that for him, it was partially because you could transition kids from the tenor line up to the snare line without having to spend time fixing their left hands. He also mentioned how out of touch trad was with the growing consensus among music educators that trad grip was an odd-man-out, and should be retired from the curriculum. From a logical standpoint, I could totally agree with it. I've got two kids who are school percussionists, both of whom are exclusively matched grip. From an instructional standpoint, I understand why trad is a non-starter, since there's enough to cover just teaching French grip for tympani, Stevens grip for keyboards, and a decent concert snare technique for everything else. But I still hate the look of it on a drum corps or marching band snare line. Don, I've got a picture here somewhere of Ralph P. and Dave Flynn playing matched in the '78 Cavaliers snare line. As if that year's show didn't punish the members enough... Edited December 1, 2008 by mobrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearlsnaredrummer77 Posted December 1, 2008 Author Share Posted December 1, 2008 We (GBV) did a seminar with Fred Sanford in 1985 and he used our line as the model. At that time our snares were still playing matched grip. It was not even mentioned as being unusual or noteworthy enough to even provoke a comment from Fred or the audience. At that time, most of the Western PA percussion world was still matched. I think Steel City Ambassadors played matched grip as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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