KeithHall Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I was thinking about this on another thread I started. I got to thinking....why did these corps in NY go away! I am talking 1970's here. In Western NY we had two "major" corps, both were Class "A" corps, Imperial Regiment and The Royal Coachmen. Compared to the smaller corps like St. Johnsburg Blue Sabres, Lake Shorettes, Rhythmettes. In Batavia we lost St. Joe's after the 1971 season and later American Patrol (I always wondered where they came from and when did they go?)and Tri-Town Cadets. In the Rochester area there were The Greece Cadets, Alpine Girls, Mighty Liberators and later on The Patriots. In Syracuse there were The Marauders, 76ers. Southern Tier we had Mark Twain Cadets (Empire State Express), Mello Dears, Grenadiers, Barons of Stuben, The Castlemen (I saw them once). In the Finger Lakes area we had The Geneva Appleknockers, Squires and Purple Lancers (although were they near a lake?. Then toward Albany we had Verona Eagles, Avant Garde, Volunteers, Kingston Indians, Pacers. Let's not forget downstate....they won't let you forget (LOL J/K guys)......LI Kingsmen, CMCC Warriors, St. Ignatius Girls, etc That's only a handful but the question is....why did they fold? Royal Coachmen folded, well merged with Frontiersmen, the guy that took the corps over on Memorial Day weekend decided to merge the corps with another corps to form a large corps. Problem was their members weren't as experienced as ours. Also some older members went to other corps (Seneca, Oakland and Imperial Regiment). By the next year many more left either join other corps or get out of drum corps. I went into the Army. Let's hear the stories and feel free to talk about your corps from another state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 In my younger days I competed against many of the corps that you mentioned back in the 70's. Why did they disappear? I tend to agree with Frank Dorritie when he wrote that much of it was due to the Viet Nam war and its aftermath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 Not sure that I agree with that. I think the "DCI touring model" theory makes more sense. In my younger days I competed against many of the corps that you mentioned back in the 70's. Why did they disappear? I tend to agree with Frank Dorritie when he wrote that much of it was due to the Viet Nam war and its aftermath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geneva Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 ...In the Finger Lakes area we had The Geneva Appleknockers, Squires and Purple Lancers (although were they near a lake?) Hi Keith, The Purple Lancers (yes Auburn is on Owasco Lake) with whom I marched in their final season in 1974 succumbed due to financial pressures. My understanding (I was not a member of the corps during the 1974-75 winter) is that the management did not have the resources to make the DCI tour schedule for the 1975 DCI season. It is a shame since the corps was strong from a membership perspective after achieving DCI membership. All the hard work and achievements of our 1974 season went for naught with the corps being a no show for the 1975 season. The Geneva Appleknockers, with whom I marched their second to last season in 1973, succumbed due to poor management decisions resulting in their being unable to retain and recruit new members. They were financially sound at the time of their demise thanks to a successful Bingo operation. They were never able to really recruit a second generation of members after ten years of competition. If you look at a lot of junior corps' life spans, you will notice a lot of attrition at the 8-10 year mark which is about the time that the charter members would have aged out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauchos77 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I was thinking about this on another thread I started. I got to thinking....why did these corps in NY go away! I am talking 1970's here.In Western NY we had two "major" corps, both were Class "A" corps, Imperial Regiment and The Royal Coachmen. Compared to the smaller corps like St. Johnsburg Blue Sabres, Lake Shorettes, Rhythmettes. In Batavia we lost St. Joe's after the 1971 season and later American Patrol (I always wondered where they came from and when did they go?)and Tri-Town Cadets. In the Rochester area there were The Greece Cadets, Alpine Girls, Mighty Liberators and later on The Patriots. In Syracuse there were The Marauders, 76ers. Southern Tier we had Mark Twain Cadets (Empire State Express), Mello Dears, Grenadiers, Barons of Stuben, The Castlemen (I saw them once). In the Finger Lakes area we had The Geneva Appleknockers, Squires and Purple Lancers (although were they near a lake?. Then toward Albany we had Verona Eagles, Avant Garde, Volunteers, Kingston Indians, Pacers. Let's not forget downstate....they won't let you forget (LOL J/K guys)......LI Kingsmen, CMCC Warriors, St. Ignatius Girls, etc That's only a handful but the question is....why did they fold? Royal Coachmen folded, well merged with Frontiersmen, the guy that took the corps over on Memorial Day weekend decided to merge the corps with another corps to form a large corps. Problem was their members weren't as experienced as ours. Also some older members went to other corps (Seneca, Oakland and Imperial Regiment). By the next year many more left either join other corps or get out of drum corps. I went into the Army. Let's hear the stories and feel free to talk about your corps from another state. Keith, AGAIN you fail to mention another Upstate New York powerhouse that practiced by a "lake" .... (Lake Neatahwanta) ...... the Fulton Gauchos !! Did we beat up on you guys that much to not warrant inclusion !! LOL And don't forget our neighbors the Oswego Black Knights. Unfortunately for me I was only able to march with the Gauchos for one year - 1977. I started in 1976, but the need for a job forced me to stop. At the end of the 1977 season I went into the Navy. Sometime during my enlistment the corps merged with someone and then just went away. I still see a few of the members at different shows. You mentioned the Castlemen from Conklin, NY. I remember them ..... but by then they were just a small parade corps that just vanished. The Apalachin Grenadiers had one of the best horn lines to ever come out of New York thanks to Ken Turner. I believe they finished 8th in horns at Ithaca in 74 but couldn't march or drum (remember those red/white/blue drums?) to match it. But, oh boy - no one can forget the Mello-Dears !!!! In response to another of your topics (Buffalo Show) - don't apologize. I would take a day with my son over a drum corps show ANYTIME. I'm just fortunate enough this year to be able to march next to him with Empire. We need to get together sometime though to take our trip down the "Upstate Drum Corps" memory lane Ken Roe Fulton Gauchos 1977 Empire Statesmen 2009 - ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 I am sorry I left out the Gauchos and Black Knights as they were 2 corps that liked and were going places Keith,AGAIN you fail to mention another Upstate New York powerhouse that practiced by a "lake" .... (Lake Neatahwanta) ...... the Fulton Gauchos !! Did we beat up on you guys that much to not warrant inclusion !! LOL And don't forget our neighbors the Oswego Black Knights. Unfortunately for me I was only able to march with the Gauchos for one year - 1977. I started in 1976, but the need for a job forced me to stop. At the end of the 1977 season I went into the Navy. Sometime during my enlistment the corps merged with someone and then just went away. I still see a few of the members at different shows. You mentioned the Castlemen from Conklin, NY. I remember them ..... but by then they were just a small parade corps that just vanished. The Apalachin Grenadiers had one of the best horn lines to ever come out of New York thanks to Ken Turner. I believe they finished 8th in horns at Ithaca in 74 but couldn't march or drum (remember those red/white/blue drums?) to match it. But, oh boy - no one can forget the Mello-Dears !!!! In response to another of your topics (Buffalo Show) - don't apologize. I would take a day with my son over a drum corps show ANYTIME. I'm just fortunate enough this year to be able to march next to him with Empire. We need to get together sometime though to take our trip down the "Upstate Drum Corps" memory lane Ken Roe Fulton Gauchos 1977 Empire Statesmen 2009 - ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kansasDC Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 After a very successful 1980 season, a group of parents who thought they could do better than the people who had founded and run the corps for 17 years, got a good lawyer, and convinced a stupid judge that the Board set up of the Long Island Kingsmen was flawed. They took the corps from its 16th place finish in 1980 to a 36th place finish in 1981 to dead. Living proof that it's always harder than it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHall Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Seems to me, when I was working with the Patriots in 1984, that the Kingsmen had a very good corps that yar AND played Lionel Ritchies "All Night Long" because it kept going and going as they exited the field. After a very successful 1980 season, a group of parents who thought they could do better than the people who had founded and run the corps for 17 years, got a good lawyer, and convinced a stupid judge that the Board set up of the Long Island Kingsmen was flawed. They took the corps from its 16th place finish in 1980 to a 36th place finish in 1981 to dead.Living proof that it's always harder than it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kansasDC Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Seems to me, when I was working with the Patriots in 1984, that the Kingsmen had a very good corps that yar AND played Lionel Ritchies "All Night Long" because it kept going and going as they exited the field. A different group of people tried to get the corps going again in '83 and '84, using some of the old stuff, but it never really went very far. They struggled to get out of the 30's and lower 40's in scores both years. There was an effort a couple of years ago involving some of the alumni of the Kingsmen to get a winter drumline program going as a pre-cursor to a corps, but that only lasted a short time as well. The glory days of the Long Island corps was pretty much over by the early 80's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) Sorry, double post. SKY Edited February 24, 2009 by sky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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