Bail out another corps!

[Richard]

http://www.oregoncrusaders.org/files/obt_supports_oc.pdf

"Following the performance if we have raised enough money, we will be packing up our charter buses and heading out [for tour]"

Just think, what if it was your kid whose corps couldn't properly manage their money two years in a row! You'd surely pour in the money then! Let's all pitch in and just get this corps and these great kids to finals this year (and every subsequent year)! I've been to their rehearsals and their staff is top notch and they treat the kids so well and teach them important life lessons like the value of money and the benefits of sound planning like if you don't plan ahead you can surely rely on others to bail you out! The vets surely understand this lesson well, as they've experienced the necessity of a last-minute-give-us-your-money 'fundraiser' two years in a row now! Let's all make sure this corps is still around next year so they can ask for money yet again!

If you donated to Revolution, what's one more corps amirite? Heck, if there are any other corps that are confused by all this silly math and dollar signs, just wait for the public to bail you out, or double-charge your already paid-in-full members! Just make sure you wait until the last possible minute so you can threaten not making it to championships!

lolwut?

[TrumpetJ]

http://www.oregoncrusaders.org/files/obt_supports_oc.pdf

"Following the performance if we have raised enough money, we will be packing up our charter buses and heading out [for tour]"

Just think, what if it was your kid whose corps couldn't properly manage their money two years in a row! You'd surely pour in the money then! Let's all pitch in and just get this corps and these great kids to finals this year (and every subsequent year)! I've been to their rehearsals and their staff is top notch and they treat the kids so well and teach them important life lessons like the value of money and the benefits of sound planning like if you don't plan ahead you can surely rely on others to bail you out! The vets surely understand this lesson well, as they've experienced the necessity of a last-minute-give-us-your-money 'fundraiser' two years in a row now! Let's all make sure this corps is still around next year so they can ask for money yet again!

If you donated to Revolution, what's one more corps amirite? Heck, if there are any other corps that are confused by all this silly math and dollar signs, just wait for the public to bail you out, or double-charge your already paid-in-full members! Just make sure you wait until the last possible minute so you can threaten not making it to championships!

lolwut?

I see what you did there. Sneaky sneaky. What is it with corps trying to spend what they don't have all of a sudden? If you don't have the money to tour, take a lesson from recent world class corps. Take a year (maybe two) off and regroup. Get your self financially sound before you end up spending beyond your means and a town and it's young musicians have to wave goodbye to a drum corps (Magic and Kiwanis ring a bell?). Troopers did it. Capital Regiment did it. Cascades did it. It can be done. It's been done many times before.

[Crassissimo]

Directors too often now do it for the placement. Who says a successful season has to end in Indianapolis? It would be nice but what really measures success? If making it out there seems like a real chore that could possibly place the corps with financial issues, DON'T PLAN A TOUR THERE!!! Either that or just do the job right and raise the monies needed well in advance.

This topic is getting so old. Administrations need to be more responsible!

Can you imagine the let down for the kids if on that final night they don't raise the 50K they need? They would have their bags all packed and ready to go for tour and then... they only raised 15K?! Sorry kids... go home. Better luck next year? This is not offering the best experience for any child! It puts the whole organization in an awkward position with their own community.

[crfrey71]

Sounds to me like the corps' administration is managing the corps properly. They would like to go to Indy for championships. If they don't have the funds, then they are not going to Indy. That is being responsible. They are not going to borrow money when they don't have it just to tour to Indy.

This is the first summer after the federal bailout. There is a lot of volatility in regards to fundraisers, etc... There are plenty of very well-known fundraising organizations that are going through tough times this year.

Hmmm...maybe NIKE can help them out?

I donated $25 just now, online.

[MoonHill]

I'm not really seeing what's prompting the ire, myself. They're not begging, they're holding a gala fundraising event, complete with a performance by the corps that is billed as the final Portland performance of the season. Fundraising in such a manner has always, and will continue to be, a major source of funding for a very wide variety of non-profit organizations.

The only thing that strikes me as a little odd is the amount and the timing, honestly. $50k is alot to raise in two weeks, even with a good "attended by the mayor" gala.

It's not like they're saying "give us money or we'll fold forever and won't you feel bad!!!"; they're saying that they've had a good season, and would you like to attend a function for a fee that we hope will allow us the funds to make a trip to Indianapolis to shoot for the ring.

Heck, guys, they're throwing a party and putting on a show for the money. That's pretty good value for a suggested donation of $20.

Of course, it might have been a little better to get the Indy funds laid out a bit more than two weeks before the trip. In fact, it would have been definitely better. But this ain't begging for a handout.

[Richard]

Right, they aren't begging for handout. But they planned first and raised funds later, TWO YEARS IN A ROW. The timing is so people feel more obliged to give. If Revolution posted on the internet in February that they didn't have the funds for a full tour, do you think they would have gotten the same response they did by asking for it in the middle of tour? Donating money only encourages this type of irresponsibility, any rational person cannot refute that.

[kusankusho]

So - two OC corps asking for cash because they're in danger of not completing tour? Guys - this isn't looking good. The logical question is - who's next? Nobody, I hope, but at this rate....

EDIT - short story....

In '03 Dutch Boy didn't have the funds to go to DCI.

So we didn't go. Just did a short tour.

The corps is alive and well today.

Make of that what you will

Edited July 15, 2009 by kusankusho

[Ranger Rick]

Some things that have been said here are offensive and ignorant.

Responsible management would not have purchased electronic equipment, but made do with perfectly fine acoustic instruments

Who are you to say what the Oregon Crusaders have and have not purchased? Do you know something that others do not? Please, enlighten us.

Responsible management would not have had tour event partners set up housing for them that they "may not use"

Is this how you think housing for Open Class corps works? If the show organizers have finished arranging housing for HALF of OC's upcoming shows I'll eat my shako.

You don't know what it's like to run a drum corps out of the NW. If Oregon takes a year off, they're as good as gone. Cascades survived a year off, yes, but they lost most of their old membership base and are VERY small for a WC corps despite having taken over an entire OC corps. What kept them alive was a bailout from old debts, and the World Class brand to recruit members. The result? A corps apparently destined to finish dead last by a sizable margin. I take no pleasure in saying that, Cascades boosters, but that is what I project, honestly. Without the World Class brand, Cascades wouldn't receive the DCI royalties and wouldn't have enough members to compete.

Oregon doesn't have these luxuries. Oregon needs to field year after year or they're gone, and that means drum corps in Oregon is gone FOREVER. This isn't about directors putting scores over financial responsibility, this is about people who love this American art form and work hundreds of hours for little or no pay so young adults can experience what it means to be in a touring drum and bugle corps.

We're in a serious economic crisis that has hit the NW hard, and the Crusaders are still 80% self-sufficient. 80% isn't good enough, but it's a miracle that they're doing this well. Perhaps it's not responsible to attempt a tour under the circumstances, but a year off will kill drum corps in Oregon forever. An economist would say it shouldn't be done. But it must be done anyway. Some corps could fill nearly half their budget if every living alumni gave $100 a year. Oregon is 10 years old, and has never been large. They have no such resource. It takes a lot of guts to accuse a corps of mismanagement and irresponsibility when you know little or nothing about their specific situation.

You say 'encourage irresponsibility,' I say save an art form. There's an ocean between me and my corps right now, so I'm a little out of the loop, but I know the men and women who run this group and are they are intelligent, responsible, caring individuals who have always put the health and safety of their members first, people who understand art AND business, and people who are willing to do anything, ANYTHING to make this tour happen.

I'm going to say something that I shouldn't, from a business perspective. Even if OC doesn't raise the full $50,000 at that dinner, I think the tour will happen anyway. Someone will sell their car, or their boat; someone will make an extreme sacrifice to make this happen. They will do this because they know that the value of a year of drum corps for sixty of the finest young men and women in the NW is worth a hell of a lot more than $50,000. And they know that these years where 40 members quit during camps because their families can't provide the money will soon end. The corps must go on. Of course I encourage you all to donate anyway, as I will. My brief two years as a member of the Oregon Crusaders give me strength and confidence each and every day of my life. I can meet any challenge, because I am an Oregon Crusader. No obstacle is too great, because I am an Oregon Crusader.

I take offense to things that have been said here. If you truly support drum and bugle corps, you should know better than to disparage your greatest allies.

Sincerely

Former Marching Member,

Rick J. Vranish

Drum Major

Oregon Crusaders 2007-2008

[Scoutnout]

Some things that have been said here are offensive and ignorant.

Who are you to say what the Oregon Crusaders have and have not purchased? Do you know something that others do not? Please, enlighten us.

Is this how you think housing for Open Class corps works? If the show organizers have finished arranging housing for HALF of OC's upcoming shows I'll eat my shako.

You don't know what it's like to run a drum corps out of the NW. If Oregon takes a year off, they're as good as gone. Cascades survived a year off, yes, but they lost most of their old membership base and are VERY small for a WC corps despite having taken over an entire OC corps. What kept them alive was a bailout from old debts, and the World Class brand to recruit members. The result? A corps apparently destined to finish dead last by a sizable margin. I take no pleasure in saying that, Cascades boosters, but that is what I project, honestly. Without the World Class brand, Cascades wouldn't receive the DCI royalties and wouldn't have enough members to compete.

Oregon doesn't have these luxuries. Oregon needs to field year after year or they're gone, and that means drum corps in Oregon is gone FOREVER. This isn't about directors putting scores over financial responsibility, this is about people who love this American art form and work hundreds of hours for little or no pay so young adults can experience what it means to be in a touring drum and bugle corps.

We're in a serious economic crisis that has hit the NW hard, and the Crusaders are still 80% self-sufficient. 80% isn't good enough, but it's a miracle that they're doing this well. Perhaps it's not responsible to attempt a tour under the circumstances, but a year off will kill drum corps in Oregon forever. An economist would say it shouldn't be done. But it must be done anyway. Some corps could fill nearly half their budget if every living alumni gave $100 a year. Oregon is 10 years old, and has never been large. They have no such resource. It takes a lot of guts to accuse a corps of mismanagement and irresponsibility when you know little or nothing about their specific situation.

You say 'encourage irresponsibility,' I say save an art form. There's an ocean between me and my corps right now, so I'm a little out of the loop, but I know the men and women who run this group and are they are intelligent, responsible, caring individuals who have always put the health and safety of their members first, people who understand art AND business, and people who are willing to do anything, ANYTHING to make this tour happen.

I'm going to say something that I shouldn't, from a business perspective. Even if OC doesn't raise the full $50,000 at that dinner, I think the tour will happen anyway. Someone will sell their car, or their boat; someone will make an extreme sacrifice to make this happen. They will do this because they know that the value of a year of drum corps for sixty of the finest young men and women in the NW is worth a hell of a lot more than $50,000. And they know that these years where 40 members quit during camps because their families can't provide the money will soon end. The corps must go on. Of course I encourage you all to donate anyway, as I will. My brief two years as a member of the Oregon Crusaders give me strength and confidence each and every day of my life. I can meet any challenge, because I am an Oregon Crusader. No obstacle is too great, because I am an Oregon Crusader.

I take offense to things that have been said here. If you truly support drum and bugle corps, you should know better than to disparage your greatest allies.

Sincerely

Former Marching Member,

Rick J. Vranish

Drum Major

Oregon Crusaders 2007-2008

I see both sides of this argument being an administrator within this activity. I also understand and admirer your passion so the question is why not organize some alumni as you said . As an alumni maybe you are the key or another alumni.

I think another large problem is that many kids today commit to the financial part then can't live up to the obligation. Corps trying to get numbers large or small fall prey to these kids of entitlement . I have seen many drum corps as well as winter guards fold for this very reason. Merely wanting to do this is not a good enough reason if you can't commit to the financial....This is just a fact of life in any aspect.

It's awful when any group folds. I think it just doesn't hurt them but the activity. It's just one more less and that's not good either BUT on the other hand IF you can't make it year to year for whatever the reason then sometimes as bad as it seems then it's time to end. Unfortunately there also have been corps out there that have folded and came back folded again and came back again and each time it was a financial fiasco.

ok just my 2 cents worth.

[goldingna]

I think the biggest issue I have with these "bailout" threads is that everyone is accusing these directors of mismanagement. When any drum corps sets up their budget, member dues are one of the first things they look at. The problem for most open class corps is that member dues are the largest part of their income. How can you effectively manage a budget when the largest part of your income is a huge question mark?

Last year, I was the program coordinator at Spokane Thunder. When I was hired, the organization was just recovering from being a little in the red. They host a very large marching band competition every year, which ends up being their largest fundraising event. When I discussed the staff/travel budget with the director, we did it based on an overall budget that projected a membership of 30 brass (three more than the previous year), 24 percussion, 12 guard, and 2DMs. At $1,200 per member, that put us at $81,600 in member dues. The reality is that despite recruiting efforts, we fielded 18 brass, 23 percussion, 8 guard, and 2DMs. Those numbers put us $20,000 below our planned budget, so we tried to raise funds in anyway possible. The result was still a five-figure deficit. The corps director didn't mismanage anything. How could he know that kids would quit in the last two winter camps because the fees? He did what he had to do....let the parents know that if we didn't raise a certain amount before move-in, we weren't going to be able to tour. In 24 hours, the community gave the corps more than what we needed, and tour happened. We ended the season in the black, and the director said that he would never allow a situation like that to happen again.

Flash-forward to December 2009. The corps holds it's first camp with an 85% return rate of 2008's members. Even with that, the corps still only sees 25 brass, a lot of percussion, and a few guard. Could Spokane Thunder have had another competitive season in 2009? Absolutely. The staff was returning, and so were all of the members. We would have been a little larger, and would definitely be competing for a medal right now. However, the budget situation was shaping up to be as shaky as it the year prior, and the director decided that he would rather merge with the Cascades than put out another corps that might be in danger of canceling tour at the last minute. At the time, it really hurt to know that there wasn't going to be a Thunder 2009, but at the end of the day, the director and the board made the right call.

As for the situation at OC, I don't know the specifics, so I can't comment. I do know that we made the best decision for us, and I hope that they're making the best decision for them. I know that they didn't hit their 50k goal last year, but still made it to Indy. I suspect that the same will happen this year.