Crassissimo

Agreed. Crusaders have a great design and are achieving its difficulties. So is BDB though. I believe, if anything, an open class corps is given more credit than necessary to try difficult things and not perform them cleanly. In world class you have to execute to get credit. Open class is a little more lenient in that aspect. The top 4 corps in Open Class however are all pushing their member's talent boundaries with design but they are ACTUALLY achieving and executing unlike several other top 12 placing open class corps. The top 3 or 4 corps will all translate well enough on the world class sheets to make semis I think.

Prelims Placement Predictions 18 Pacific Crest 19 Oregon Crusaders 20 Mandarins 21 Blue Devils B 22 Vanguard Cadets 23 Teal Sound 24 Cascades 25 Spartans ------------------- 26 Jersey Surf 27 Revolution 28 Pioneer 29 Genesis 30 7th Regiment

Can this be confirmed from another source that this Northstar program being talked about is geared to be a competitive DCI corps? That would be great news for the area if they have the right resources. And is this in the near future (2 years)? or unforeseen future?

I can't possibly read 65 pages of banter so I'll just say this if it hasn't been said already: According to what evidence and information we all have, the facade of "for the good of the activity" is not being bought, otherwise this conversation wouldn't be going on. The most inclined of the G7 should take the Star of Indiana approach if they want to focus on nothing but themselves and really explore the activity. Find some other creative venue of performance and make your money that way. Do not drag everyone else down.

I believe this has been a discussion before on here. This is what I have found in the past... 1997 Braintree Braves: Medford Show 9.000 and this wasn't a typo. Same year... Fitchburg Show: 20.200 Athol Show: 11.700 If I am not mistaken though, this was prior to the minimum limit. The corps was 3 or 4 little little kids. Snare, Soprano, and 1 or 2 flags. I saw a video about 6 years ago of their show that season.

For Christmas all I wanted was 45 healthy Open Class corps back in competition. I think Santa accidentally skipped over my house last night. Crap.

Agreed but this is something that probably won't change simply because it has become the norm. (In World Class)

Then use this as your first post. I don't know how I am suppose to gather all of this information from your original statistics. I realize there was an outcry with rule changes but how many fans really stopped going to shows besides the 10 radicals on this board who once claimed they will never support DCI again? There is no solid evidence that a fan base was lost. It could also be argued that for every one "Legacy Fan" that was lost, there were two new customers because the shows were more engaging for young students who were used to electronics already being used in WGI and BOA. There isn't evidence to support that either. However, I do need to come back and edit this post because I don't want to sound like a complete jerk. This is because I DO agree with your observation of how drum corps has, in some cases, devalued communities in their local area and instead have embraced the opposite platform. Who am I to say that the opposite platform of shipping kids in from all over the place and having auditions hundreds of miles from your offices should be stopped, it is just the way the activity has evolved.

We're not trying to sell Old Navy Fleece Jackets here... Your statistics may be true for Mom and Pop's Family Diner but not necessarily true for EVERYTHING in the marketing world. And if we hold these stats as true for everything, is this supposed to dissuade DCI from marketing the activity to local communities? Is this supposed to dissuade any business from marketing to new customers? According to what Bobby has been saying, DCI does not over-advertise because it just is not in the budget. No one is wasting their time trying to attract new customers.

Well, the schedule is up (although it is not set in stone) and as of now there are only 13 Open Class corps out in the Indiana area right before finals week. (This most definitely won't be the the real number) -Blue Saints and Mystikal do not have their schedules up yet. -Thunder, Spartans, and Forte, assuming DCI allows them all to field, will probably go to Finals. -The other possible new corps: Chippewa Valley Brigade, Platinum, this Genesis that Chris Green mentions, and who knows what other ones are in the process of building and being approved may go to Finals for all we know. -It seems as though Vanguard Cadets will be ending at San Antonio. For the roughest estimates ever... From the names here, there is a possibility of having 13-21 corps at Quarterfinals. Assuming all of these corps are given DCI approval and none of them go inactive for the season, there is a possibility of having anywhere between 21-27 Open Class corps competing at least once this season. I am not sure of what other corps are trying to get approved by DCI so even that maximum may be low. Note: None of these numbers include Teal Sound since it looks like they will definitely be okay'd for WC status. They are signed up for almost every single WC regional on the East Coast/Midwest.

I have a feeling that 14 is a very silly number. If this were the worst possible year ever for OC corps attending Quarterfinals I think the lowest it would probably drop to is 17, and that's if this "trend" is as bad as it can get. I hope to see 19 coming out again.

That is great news to hear!

I noticed that they will be speaking with DCI soon about re-emerging this season and have scheduled a December camp. Any idea about who is lined up for their staff?

That is good news. The next step would be to offer this 350 page resource to more than just the Open Class directors; offer it to anyone who requests it with an interest in building a corps from the ground up like the OP suggests. It may play a factor in helping the future rise of sustainable corps (those that can endure decades of seasons and decades of students).

I think from the posts you made earlier this week everyone has their own view as to what your profile is. As I'm sure people have also formulated their own profiles of Richard. What you say on here IS your identity. So, if you are worried about your character and what people think of it, you should watch what you say because words are the only thing that characterize you. And I'll let you in on a tip, if you post anything, you will be judged by at least half of the membership on here. That's just how it is.

... then ......... whose truck WAS that last night? okay okay. In actuality i really hope the kids finish strong this season and that they have a great time.

Fine, I'll dumb it down for you... PETA has valid points. We're just too stubborn to change our ways to meet those points. We like meat too #### much. Angry mobs (some of them) on DCP also have valid points. Some people are just too stubborn to see a corps that made a mistake pay the consequences so that they can ACTUALLY learn from it... because they like their Home Team too #### much. Sorry, Your Majesty, I won't use analogies on threads that you read anymore.

Then you do understand it. It gets people thinking but I believe 95% of the people on here, when they hear questions and complaints, are too stubborn to actually allow it to affect real life decisions/actions/ or discussions. It may make some people true believers (parents, prospective members etc) but in reality, probably not many at all. For example there are probably 4 OC parents on this entire board who read this and probably all of them stand behind their children's corps because it is their child we are talking about here. There is probably one prospective OC member who is probably 15 years old and, in the end, will forget about this and just be thinking about their Finals placement and how cool it would be to be in their snareline. Those are some decision makers. The Director is also a decision maker and this voice has reached him. But, I am sure the DCP voice reached him last year too when there was probably a similar uproar about them going on tour without all of the necessary funds. It may have been a smaller scale uproar but I'm sure he heard about it. Was it completely taken to heart? Couldn't have been because they almost didn't have the necessary funds for tour again. In the end the only satisfaction people get out of argument threads are NOT real results to the problems they propose but instead, "I told you so" victories where what you predicted would happen if action was not taken, actually occurred. "I told you so" is what feeds this discussion board not problems being solved. That is my explanation as to why I do not think protest threads on this board really affect peoples decisions most of the time. Now is that to say these threads are useless? Absolutely NOT! Very few people take the content and truly think about it but every person counts! If you started a corps and it was equipped to march 150 members but only 40 people committed themselves to the corps, do you say, "eh... our full intention wasn't met, lets not put out this corps." I would sure hope not because you could be cheating 40 people out of a good experience. Every little bit counts whether its one person genuinely listening to an outcry or 400.

Agreed. "Trash talk" is a poor choice of words. But, I can admit I half agree with Madrid's final paragraph. This comes from a typically stubborn mouth. There needs to be that balance he talks about in order for this activity to flourish... but voices on here, IMO, do not directly affect true lives as much every one thinks or as much as a Director's actions do. We're the small mob of angry activists who make a stink but never win. People believe our words are justified but won't stand behind us when we ask for answers to questions or cry for change because to those outsiders it looks too "radical" or too much of an improbable feat to accomplish. Call us the PETA of DCP. With that said: I love meat.

Mismanagement.

No, those rankings can't be right. DCI.org scores say that although BAC scored an 86.950, they came in 45th place tonight at that Mississippi show. Wow, when was the last time 45 corps made it out to all compete head to head in one division? Personally, I love glitches/mistakes. I've seen too many people complain about DCIs scoring mistakes. It always gives me a good laugh. As long as they're right at the show, that's all that counts.

What if the people who you are harping on are legitimate figures in the activity who are merely showing concern? Would that quiet you down? Relax. Your teams are finishing their tours; they are going to have a great summer. The kids will be fed plenty and will make friends for a lifetime. And to settle you down a little more, Questions don't hurt if they have honest and meaningful Answers. Even the Questions that precede poor Answers don't hurt anything. The Actions which produced the poor Answers are the real problem. I hope all of these corps have wiser paths ahead of them. That is, if their path wasn't a wise one in the first place of course.

Um, yes, I know this for a fact because OC has been on the Championship schedule all season... What member wouldn't be saying, "all this hard work is for one top notch performance at Finals" especially when they're from a very competitively successful corps like OC? Your point is absurd. Tour is the most exciting part of the season for any kid when a corps has it planned all year. If you don't look forward to a planned drum corps tour, then you shouldn't be in the activity. If you are correct and zero of those kids are thinking any of those things in their head, then that Oregon water is tainted with some heavy ####.

The above statement may be the reason. At this point, for the judges, it is probably more about the gaps than following the defined "Boxes" in an extreme literal sense.

And for those of you who like to see just what it would look like with only the corps attending Championships... 1. 77.700 - Citations 2. 76.850 - Teal Sound 3. 76.650 - Capital Regiment 4. 74.500 - Blue Devils B 5. 73.200 - Raiders 6. 72.500 - 7th Regiment 7. 72.000 - Santa Clara Vanguard Cadets 8. 71.000 - Velvet Knights 9. 70.700 - Revolution 10. 68.050 - Colt Cadets 11. 64.950 - Legends 12. 64.750 - Oregon Crusaders 13. 61.500 - Racine Scouts 14. 59.350 - Dutch Boy 15. 57.800 - Memphis Sound 16. 53.400 - Spirit of Newark 17. 48.750 - Les Stentors 18. 00.000 - Blue Saints 19. 00.000 - Music City I realize this isn't a predictions thread but I'll say this: Citations won't come in first, maybe 3rd or 4th but not 1st, Velvet Knights may have a shot at making finals, Vanguard will be in the top 6, Raiders, Revo, and OC will be fighting it out for that last top 6 spot, 7th Regiment makes Finals for sure, and Music City will be somewhere between 14th and 9th (who knows). Still a lot of shots in the dark. No one would really be able to make a relatively accurate prediction until the end of July when all of the teams are finally out and west coast and east coast are going head to head. Can't wait for that time to come!