The DCI Yearlys: 1986

[Lancerlady]

Were you there?  I mean, did you see the performances LIVE that you claim you should have beaten?  What makes you qualified to judge brass, percussion, visual, and GE?  Wow, you should be inducted into the DCI Hall of Fame for your top notch judging skills, for they must be the most impressive I've ever seen.  I am sorry, but I get so ####### tired of people #####ing about scores all the ####### time when when push comes to shove they don't know #### about judging.  You got 13th place.  The judges felt you deserved 13th place and were not out to punish you.  Focus on the joy 2-7 brought to the activity.  Don't bring bitterness into the picture.  It was 20 years ago - move on!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow such anger! Yes, I was there, and I saw the performances live, mostly on tour competing against me and then on finals night. Please go back and read other posts.

I have moved on, and this thread asked about our memories, and personally for me that is how I felt. No I wasn't inducted into the Hall of fame but I know plenty of people who are there now, who was there that night.

Why are you so defensive about my take on it? Why is it so hard for some to see that politics does exist? If you choose to ignore that factor that is okay for you, but don't be so angry with me about how I felt and KNOW things went down for us.

I didn't bring bitterness into the picture I merely stated how I felt about it, there are those of you whom are badgering me about my feelings whom are bringing bitterness into this thread and please quit trying to flame arguments, as stated before I am done with this. If you want to flame, go flame someone else...There is no need for you to be so harsh with me about this... <**>

[gellio]

History will record that the Blue Devils swept all captions that night. But we knew who the better brass line was (BD ended up with a 10 in ensemble brass, while we got a 9.8...a dumping if I ever saw one...no way BD was two tenths better. One, maybe, but not two). Final score, BD 19.8, Suncoast 19.7. A few years later Jack Meehan would tell me he was convinced BD should have been second in brass that night...and that meant a lot to me (I would eventually go with the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" school of thought and join the Blue Devils).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You guys did rock in 1986 and had a fantastic hornline. It's my favorite show from 1986 (after SCV). I was hoping Suncoast would be a future contender after that season. Of all the corps that have come and gone, they (and Star) are the ones I miss most.

Edited June 4, 2005 by gellio

[gellio]

Weird. I'm looking at a Xerox of the recap from finals night (got it from John Fulton) and it clearly has the numbers I quoted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He is correct on the overall brass numbers. You guys got a 9.9 for 1st in field, but landed in 3rd overall based on the ensemble mark.

[gellio]

Phillips really never gave Suncoast a fair break in all the years I marched. Baggs Jr. loved us in '85, and bagged us in '86. Weird.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are rich!

[gellio]

Wow such anger! Yes, I was there, and I saw the performances live, mostly on tour competing against me and then on finals night. Please go back and read other posts.

I have moved on, and this thread asked about our memories, and personally for me that is how I felt. No I wasn't inducted into the Hall of fame but I know plenty of people who are there now, who was there that night. 

Why are you so defensive about my take on it? Why is it so hard for some to see that politics does exist? If you choose to ignore that factor that is okay for you, but don't be so angry with me about how I felt and KNOW things went down for us.

I didn't bring bitterness into the picture I merely stated how I felt about it, there are those of you whom are badgering me about my feelings whom are bringing bitterness into this thread and please quit trying to flame arguments, as stated before I am done with this. If you want to flame, go flame someone else...There is no need for you to be so harsh with me about this... <**>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not only can you judge four captions at once, you can be in two places at one time? Wow, to watch your show from the stands while marching it must have been a total rush! I always wanted to do that. Please tell me what it was like.

I am sorry, but I just get sick and tired of your constant #####ing about getting screwed. It's not fair to the corps you competed against. You didn't work any harder than anyone else on the field those nights. Troopers deserved their finalist spot and the books will always have them as a finalist.

[Lancerlady]

Not only can you judge four captions at once, you can be in two places at one time?  Wow, to watch your show from the stands while marching it must have been a total rush!  I always wanted to do that.  Please tell me what it was like.

I am sorry, but I just get sick and tired of your constant #####ing about getting screwed.  It's not fair to the corps you competed against.  You didn't work any harder than anyone else on the field those nights.  Troopers deserved their finalist spot and the books will always have them as a finalist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are you talking about? You asked was I there? Yes at prelims I was. Then we didn't make finals, and I got to watch from the stands, that is what I was talking about.

I haven't been constantly complaining, what are you talking about? I made one post and the other guy started in on me. I said that in my original statement that I never tried to imply anything about the other corps that were in finals. That is NOT who I was upset with...read again.

[byline]

Why are you so defensive about my take on it? Why is it so hard for some to see that politics does exist? If you choose to ignore that factor that is okay for you, but don't be so angry with me about how I felt and KNOW things went down for us.

It's too bad that this thread has turned into a debate over politics, but I guess we run that risk whenever we ask for opinions.

Here's the problem I have with talk about politics: I don't deny that it exists. But I do maintain that it is very difficult to prove. And, in the absence of that proof, all we have on opinion forums like this one is speculation. Maybe it's the reporter in me, but I find such speculation very frustrating for the following reasons:

First of all, because, as someone who has judged in the past, I find this talk about judges very demeaning. How easy would it be for someone to charge me with conspiring to "prevent" them from winning a guard trophy? It would be simple. Yet I can tell you that in all my years of judging, I made precisely one judgment that I know, beyond any doubt, was in error. (By the way, that doesn't mean I never made a mistake, or no one ever disagreed with me. But judging is based on opinion, and when I judged, it was my opinion they were asking for.) What I mean by that is that there was a particular situation in which prelims placements determined finals caption awards. Silly method, IMO, but I guess the contest organizers felt it would keep bands from phoning in their performances in prelims and then really turning it on in finals. Anyway, in one class I gave a particular guard the top score. At the time, I really believed they deserved it. Then, doing my taped comments during finals, I realized I was wrong, and that I should've given it to another guard. Nothing I could do about it then, but man, did I ever feel awful. But that's the only time that's ever happened to me. I did similar situations before and after, with the same prelims/finals setup, and I never second-guessed any of my other decisions because they always felt right to me. Except for that one. But that wasn't politics; that was just a human mistake.

Secondly, talk about politics--that somehow a particular corps was deliberately robbed of a spot in finals, or the championship, or whatever--demeans whatever corps did get those spots, or did win. And I have a very hard time with that. There are many situations where I really do believe the outcome should've been different, but as I grow older, I'm more and more reluctant to express those opinions because I know how hurtful they may be to other corps full of proud, hard-working people. How important is my opinion? Is it worth it if it's at the expense of someone else? More and more these days, I find that it's not.

Just to show that I haven't always been a non-believer, when it comes to conspiracy theories, they were rife within my own corps . . . and I tended to believe them. Why? Because they were easy to believe. One of the biggest ones I heard was, "DCI will never allow a Canadian corps to win finals." People will insist that's true because, after all, no Canadian corps ever did win DCI finals . . . and the likelihood is especially remote now. But that's flawed reasoning. Just because no Canadian corps ever won DCI finals doesn't mean DCI deliberately set out to keep that from happening. But, in the absence of hard evidence, it sure is easy to speculate in that direction.

Now, if someone ever offers up hard evidence that such a conspiracy did, in fact, exist, I will be more than happy to stand corrected.

[gellio]

What are you talking about? You asked was I there? Yes at prelims I was. Then we didn't make finals, and I got to watch from the stands, that is what I was talking about.

I haven't been constantly complaining, what are you talking about? I made one post and the other guy started in on me. I said that in my original statement that I never tried to imply anything about the other corps that were in finals. That is NOT who I was upset with...read again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So now we can judge Troopers finals performance against 27th's semifinals performance (that's the one where you were both on the field and in the stands at the same time). You are just running in circles to prove your point, aren't you?

And girl, don't make me throw you under the bus. You have constantly gripped about 1980 too.

Edited June 4, 2005 by gellio

[gellio]

It's too bad that this thread has turned into a debate over politics, but I guess we run that risk whenever we ask for opinions.

Here's the problem I have with talk about politics: I don't deny that it exists. But I do maintain that it is very difficult to prove. And, in the absence of that proof, all we have on opinion forums like this one is speculation. Maybe it's the reporter in me, but I find such speculation very frustrating for the following reasons:

First of all, because, as someone who has judged in the past, I find this talk about judges very demeaning. How easy would it be for someone to charge me with conspiring to "prevent" them from winning a guard trophy? It would be simple. Yet I can tell you that in all my years of judging, I made precisely one judgment that I know, beyond any doubt, was in error. (By the way, that doesn't mean I never made a mistake, or no one ever disagreed with me. But judging is based on opinion, and when I judged, it was my opinion they were asking for.) What I mean by that is that there was a particular situation in which prelims placements determined finals caption awards. Silly method, IMO, but I guess the contest organizers felt it would keep bands from phoning in their performances in prelims and then really turning it on in finals. Anyway, in one class I gave a particular guard the top score. At the time, I really believed they deserved it. Then, doing my taped comments during finals, I realized I was wrong, and that I should've given it to another guard. Nothing I could do about it then, but man, did I ever feel awful. But that's the only time that's ever happened to me. I did similar situations before and after, with the same prelims/finals setup, and I never second-guessed any of my other decisions because they always felt right to me. Except for that one. But that wasn't politics; that was just a human mistake.

Secondly, talk about politics--that somehow a particular corps was deliberately robbed of a spot in finals, or the championship, or whatever--demeans whatever corps did get those spots, or did win. And I have a very hard time with that. There are many situations where I really do believe the outcome should've been different, but as I grow older, I'm more and more reluctant to express those opinions because I know how hurtful they may be to other corps full of proud, hard-working people. How important is my opinion? Is it worth it if it's at the expense of someone else? More and more these days, I find that it's not.

Just to show that I haven't always been a non-believer, when it comes to conspiracy theories, they were rife within my own corps . . . and I tended to believe them. Why? Because they were easy to believe. One of the biggest ones I heard was, "DCI will never allow a Canadian corps to win finals." People will insist that's true because, after all, no Canadian corps ever did win DCI finals . . . and the likelihood is especially remote now. But that's flawed reasoning. Just because no Canadian corps ever won DCI finals doesn't mean DCI deliberately set out to keep that from happening. But, in the absence of hard evidence, it sure is easy to speculate in that direction.

Now, if someone ever offers up hard evidence that such a conspiracy did, in fact, exist, I will be more than happy to stand corrected.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you, that was well said. I can't believe people would think a judge could be that evil to rob a corps of hardworking people of a place, etc. It does take away the achievement from the corps that won or made finals. Everyone works very hard during the summer, and the overall bottom line here is that NO ONE is qualified to judge all captions. We all have our opinions, but I know I know #### about percussion. I honestly can't tell the difference between a 1st place line and a 10th place line, and I don't pretend to.

[Lancerlady]

I am done with this, excuse the #### out of me. I told y'all in the beginning that I based it on my feelings and knowledge I got over the years from certain people involved directly. And as far as the "taking anything away" Velvet Knights were in 11th at first and Troopers were 12th in prelims then Troopers went up and beat VK, if my memory serves me right.

So...I never said I was angry at VK or the Troopers and I have never implied that they shouldn't have been in finals either. I stated in my original post that this was not to take anything away from those who were in finals! HELLO!

So move on to something else and quit badgering me about MY personal feelings and knowledge about this. I have NEVER demeaned another corps...in ANY of my statements..YOU others have though with your assumptions of what I am trying to imply.

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.