arrangerx Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 You know what? Allowing Pacific Crest to do what they do for financial, participation, and educational goals is admirable. However, allowing Pacific Crest to potentially take a spot competitively away from corps who HAVE toured all summer is not. Why should any corps tour at all, if Pacific Crest is allowed not to? All the corps out there support the DCI Tour Schedule, and attract new fans to the activity around the country. They take on the responsibilities and reap the rewards. Near as I can tell, Pacific Crest is reaping the rewards organizationally, but not holding up their responsibility to the activity at large. How about this: Pacific Crest keeps doing it there way, and gets to perform in exhibition at DCI? How about this: Pacific Crest keeps doing it there way, and no one else is required to incur the expenses of touring. How about this: Pacific Crest contributes equally like the other corps competing in Division I. I'm sure they're all good people at PC, and I don't question their decisions. . . I DO question DCI allowing them to compete against corps who have fulfilled their duties as Open Class competing corps. I'm not talking about placement. . . I'm talking about being rewarded for being on the road all summer, night in and night out, selling tickets, doing the PR, and making new fans and supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uselessgoodtaste Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 No. 1) They were screwed time wise. They started their performance at 2:45. The show's tickets said the show started at 3. So first, they got to go on before the show started. 2) They had a judge who pretty much scored the show in order of appearance. Mind you he was also brought back from retirement. The recaps were great...Nothing like starting at a number and for the rest of the night, having each group be a few tenths of a point in front of the one before. If that is going to happen, why even watch the show? Just send the scores in via email. It would be a lot cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uselessgoodtaste Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 You know what?Allowing Pacific Crest to do what they do for financial, participation, and educational goals is admirable. However, allowing Pacific Crest to potentially take a spot competitively away from corps who HAVE toured all summer is not. Why should any corps tour at all, if Pacific Crest is allowed not to? All the corps out there support the DCI Tour Schedule, and attract new fans to the activity around the country. They take on the responsibilities and reap the rewards. Near as I can tell, Pacific Crest is reaping the rewards organizationally, but not holding up their responsibility to the activity at large. How about this: Pacific Crest keeps doing it there way, and gets to perform in exhibition at DCI? How about this: Pacific Crest keeps doing it there way, and no one else is required to incur the expenses of touring. How about this: Pacific Crest contributes equally like the other corps competing in Division I. I'm sure they're all good people at PC, and I don't question their decisions. . . I DO question DCI allowing them to compete against corps who have fulfilled their duties as Open Class competing corps. I'm not talking about placement. . . I'm talking about being rewarded for being on the road all summer, night in and night out, selling tickets, doing the PR, and making new fans and supporters. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So Pacific Crest doesn't sell tickets? They don't do PR? They don't make new fans and supporters? Pacific Crest has the responsibility of creating the best show possible for the fans and they do. How they do it is completely up to them. If they are beating other corps that have toured, then that is it. They beat them. Period. Why should corps that are better perform at exhibition? Because they didn't sleep on a bus all summer? Because they didn't blow their budget on their first few years of existence? What you are suggesting completely undermines the hard work of the kids and intelligent management of PC. They deserve the place they get because they have the quality of show that deserves that placement and if other corps are losing to them with more rehearsal time, then I feel that they did not do their job to their members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrangerx Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 So Pacific Crest doesn't sell tickets? They don't do PR? They don't make new fans and supporters?Pacific Crest has the responsibility of creating the best show possible for the fans and they do. How they do it is completely up to them. If they are beating other corps that have toured, then that is it. They beat them. Period. Why should corps that are better perform at exhibition? Because they didn't sleep on a bus all summer? Because they didn't blow their budget on their first few years of existence? What you are suggesting completely undermines the hard work of the kids and intelligent management of PC. They deserve the place they get because they have the quality of show that deserves that placement and if other corps are losing to them with more rehearsal time, then I feel that they did not do their job to their members. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What I am suggesting is fair. Now, evision this: Every corps from Pacific Crest on down doesn't have to tour. What happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skajerk Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 (edited) I'm not talking about placement. . . I'm talking about being rewarded for being on the road all summer, night in and night out, selling tickets, doing the PR, and making new fans and supporters. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow! I'm a little dissapointed that it took this long. The last two years, the anti-PC crowd came out within the first 3 or 4 posts. A question... Seeing as you're an arranger for some of these corps that might get taken out, is this why you have a problem with PC? Edited August 4, 2005 by skajerk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uselessgoodtaste Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Ok...depends on your definition of tour. Not including finals... Pacific Crest does 14 shows. Mandarins (full touring I guess) does 19. They also appear to have a good product. And how is what you suggest fair? Say PC is only better than the worst corps in DIV 1...for argument sake, we will say that is the Blue Devils. But because the Blue Devils tour, and PC does a limited tour, BD gets 23rd place instead of 24th? So...now PC's kids and staff knows they deserved 23rd, and the Blue Devils get a place up above, even though they don't deserve it, and the kids will know it is not deserved. I guess that is fair to you. If you can't beat 'em...then put on restrictions that will put money in other places so that the product is not as good. As for your question...What if every corps from PC down didn't have to do a full tour...ok... Then they get to spend more money on staff and not fuel. Thus creating a better product. Then they get more fans of people supporting a corps that has started to move up. Then you sell more merchandise. Then you reinvest it in staff, not tour. Then you keep moving up. Then you tour more...I think a group in the lower bracket should try it and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crfrey71 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Wow! I'm a little dissapointed that it took this long. The last two years, the anti-PC crowd came out within the first 3 or 4 posts. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's because everyone was all over SCV and now they are all over BD. Haven't had time to jump on PC yet, until now. I wish that someone would jump all over Esperanza, just so they get some press, no matter if it's bad and not deserved one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crest99 Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Maybe in addition to Bb and amps, we could just place a big Swatch odometer on the field, displaying how many miles a corps has traveled. At the end of the show they could divide the number of miles by 2500 and add that to the final score. Competition in DCI should be about what's on the sheets. Currently, that does not include effort, number of sprained ankles sustained, miles traveled, or number of burritos served. You can provide any kind of poorly conceived rationale you'd like for excluding PC on the basis of their organizational structure. But at the end of the day, if I was in a corps that beat PC--and had only beat them because we spent more time on a bus--that wouldn't give me any warm fuzzies. Beat them on the field. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaboom Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 .....News flash..... All corps must travel west of the Rockies to considered a full touring corps..... They are not supporting the DCI tour schedule or attracting new fans to the activity, unless they do... PC does support the DCI tour schedule AND attracts new fans to the activity. KABOOM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^Michael^ Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 (edited) So Pacific Crest doesn't sell tickets? They don't do PR? They don't make new fans and supporters? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <snip> They can't do those things at shows they don't appear in. What you are suggesting completely undermines the hard work of the kids and intelligent management of PC. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm quite certain that wasn't the intent of Mr. Naffier. Would you agree that the responsibility to support the touring requirements for the division a corps competes in should be applied equally to all corps in that division or applied to none? And if a corps benefits organizationally, financially or any other way from not meeting those responsibilities - is it fair that they still enjoy the full competitive benefits (scores, etc) of the fully committed corps in the division? Edited August 4, 2005 by ^Michael^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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