Allegiance Elite to go inactive

[ripper]

A certain canadian corps on its way back for next season with a new vision

[LER Director]

Friends,

I am greatly saddened by AE's announcement to go inactive. As one who traveled side by side with them over the last several years, they were a good corps with great people! But I wanted to add my 2 cents to the discussion on the Canadian corps going inactive with this thought - it's not just you! Look at the state of the Divisino II,III corps here in the States as well. This season alone we've had to go inactive, the Marion Cadets have also, now the Americanos plus the Bandettes and Pride of the Lions from your country and even tonight I see that Kiwanis Kavaliers are also pulling out of the tour for this year! I can state with accuracy that our (Lake Erie Regiment's) major problem was a lack of members. While money would be difficult, I think we could've made it there, but without the membes, there is no corps. I've heard a lot about "poor recruiting" and the like but as one who actually DID it, we recruited as much as we possibly could and expected 60+ kids at first camp. Imagine my surprise when ony 10 actually showed. Is it apathy? Is it lack of knowledge of corps? Can we find out before there will be NO MORE CORPS LEFT? I'm wondering if Allegiance had a similar experience in this regard? Again, you will be sadly missed and I will wear my AE shirt that your tour director gifted me with 3 years ago with pride!

[Canadacorps]

Friends,

I am greatly saddened by AE's announcement to go inactive. As one who traveled side by side with them over the last several years, they were a good corps with great people! But I wanted to add my 2 cents to the discussion on the Canadian corps going inactive with this thought - it's not just you! Look at the state of the Divisino II,III corps here in the States as well. This season alone we've had to go inactive, the Marion Cadets have also, now the Americanos plus the Bandettes and Pride of the Lions from your country and even tonight I see that Kiwanis Kavaliers are also pulling out of the tour for this year! I can state with accuracy that our (Lake Erie Regiment's) major problem was a lack of members. While money would be difficult, I think we could've made it there, but without the membes, there is no corps. I've heard a lot about "poor recruiting" and the like but as one who actually DID it, we recruited as much as we possibly could and expected 60+ kids at first camp. Imagine my surprise when ony 10 actually showed. Is it apathy? Is it lack of knowledge of corps? Can we find out before there will be NO MORE CORPS LEFT? I'm wondering if Allegiance had a similar experience in this regard? Again, you will be sadly missed and I will wear my AE shirt that your tour director gifted me with 3 years ago with pride!

IMHO,

I think in a lot of areas what is needed is fresh ideas, as far as this activity goes.....Eg. What is it that attracts kids to other activities? How can we incorporate those interests into what we do, without changing our activity?

OR

Why is it that Kids have decided NOT to march? If we could arrange some sort of feedback system within the corps, when they DO have the membership, then maybe we can make adjustments to what it is we do, that will retain the membership...

Honestly, I know change is not welcomed in most aspects of this activity as it is rooted in Tradition.

However, tradition cannot exist without people there to observe it. There lies the fundamental paradox of our activity, wherein change is needed to keep tradition alive.

DCI figured this out long ago, and they take a lot of heat for it. However, Drumcorps is still around, so they must be doing a lot of things right.

I dunno, I'm not saying that many of these groups haven't already done absolutely everything they can to keep things going, but maybe a new approach is needed to stop this gradual decline we've been seeing for the last 7-8 years.....

Edited May 20, 2006 by Canadacorps

[Iplaytimpani]

I can say with first hand experience with some of the listed corps, that even when members express the issues with a certain corps, a lot of times people aren't interested in listening. Many times, a director or manangement person who has been around in DCI for x number of years, doesn't care what a younger kid thinks about a situation, as they've been doing it this way for so long..blah blah blah. Again, with first hand experience, maybe its time a lot of these corps would listen to members both present and past and listen to what the REAL issues are, or things will continue down the road we've seen opened up recently.

[SoonerFan04]

I agree. A corps should rely both on the experience of the staff members/administration and the inside views of the members they are trying to recruit, hold onto, etc. How are you supposed to know what's wrong with your recruiting, for example, if you don't know how the kids feel?

Last year, my corps implemented what I believe was a very good idea. Starting in April, the corps put together a panel that consisted of various vets, horn sgt., guard captain, section leaders from all sections and the corps director. That panel met on the Saturday night of camps after rehearsal and atleast once every 1-2 weeks during the summer after the show/rehearsal. It was a time for the members to express any problems or concerns within the corps as well as brain storm ideas to help, among other things. I believe it was a great way to take a cross section of the corps memership and place it in a discussion with the top of the chain of command - the director. Perhaps more corps should consider such a panel to get the insight that can help keep their numbers up and membership intact from season to season.

Like Iplaytimpani stated - How else is a corps supposed to fix their problems, atleast the ones in their members' eyes, without listening?

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe at all of overstepping any boundaries as a member and I realize experience helps A LOT, which is what the staff has, but there can and should be a time and a place for real discussion - about the real problems.

[Canadacorps]

I agree. A corps should rely both on the experience of the staff members/administration and the inside views of the members they are trying to recruit, hold onto, etc. How are you supposed to know what's wrong with your recruiting, for example, if you don't know how the kids feel?

Last year, my corps implemented what I believe was a very good idea. Starting in April, the corps put together a panel that consisted of various vets, horn sgt., guard captain, section leaders from all sections and the corps director. That panel met on the Saturday night of camps after rehearsal and atleast once every 1-2 weeks during the summer after the show/rehearsal. It was a time for the members to express any problems or concerns within the corps as well as brain storm ideas to help, among other things. I believe it was a great way to take a cross section of the corps memership and place it in a discussion with the top of the chain of command - the director. Perhaps more corps should consider such a panel to get the insight that can help keep their numbers up and membership intact from season to season.

Like Iplaytimpani stated - How else is a corps supposed to fix their problems, atleast the ones in their members' eyes, without listening?

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe at all of overstepping any boundaries as a member and I realize experience helps A LOT, which is what the staff has, but there can and should be a time and a place for real discussion - about the real problems.

So you are stating that members to be provided with a more active role in the organizations they are members of,(within reason of course) and for more open discussion between members and the "powers that be". Am I correct?

interesting....

Edited May 20, 2006 by Canadacorps

[SoonerFan04]

Yes, that was my point essentially. Like Iplaytimpani pointed out, some corps leadership doesn't even attempt to look into what the problem is in their members eyes and like Mr. Luniewski stated, without members there is no corps.

If a director is to rely on his members to put the corps on the field, there should be some sort of open discussion between staff and members in a calm, mature manner that directly relates to a problem being faced. Whether that is recruiting, keeping a high vet return, etc.

The members are there for the experience, one of the many, many jobs the staff has is to make sure it is an enjoyable experience - if it is, more will come back and word of mouth will spread like wildfire.

I should point out that none of my comments about leadership not communicating with the ideals of it's members has NOTHING to do with the corps I march with, I am very fortunate to be part of a fantastic, stable and communicative corps. In my 3 years, although we do have a couple of holes to fill toward the end of the camps/everydays at times, we have certainly never "struggled", for lack of a better word, in recruitment and members to make sure we can field the next summer. I think that has a lot to do with the way the organization is run and the auditionees see that at camps as well as hear about it from returning members. Also, one more thing, I do not know ANYTHING as far as "inside" information about any of the corps who have taken the summer off and this is in NO way an attack on them or their recruiting efforts - merely me rambling away at my thoughts on a boring Saturday afternoon between practicing.

[Iplaytimpani]

I'm glad to hear that at least memphis is doing what in my eyes is the right thing. It certainly explains a lot to me as to their numbers, and the member enjoyment I always hear about, especially having close friends that are former members of memphis. Certainly seems to be a corps with the right ideas. I can say though, that with my corps and some of the others mentioned that are not competing this season, that I have first hand knowledge with, that these discussions would not do any good I dont think. Many times nobody would speak up I dont think, as the higher ups wouldnt really provide a true situation for that to work. Just another thing to throw out there. Any clues as to what you do than? What do you do when you can't speak to your corps director about issues as it will only cause more?

[LER Director]

Interesting thoughts from Iplaytimpani and soonerfan004! I'm curious though to sooner - exactly what kinds of topics came up and were worked out through this "council" if you will? I know we never formally had such a "feedback" group in place and am curious as to what types of things the members were willing to bring up? It could be a great idea as long as it didn't turn into the weekly gripe session! I know we had some meetings over the years when the members would request it, but often times, they asked to have NO staff or managment present which I took to mean it was an issue they wanted to address by themselves, for themselves. Perhaps a council would be a more positive step in this direction.

And as timpani puts it, managment does need to know what is going on within the membership. Where I guess I would draw the line though for our corps is when members would want to meet to try and change rules that were.. simply put... rules. For example, males and females have ALWAYS slept on opposite sides of the gym. That is a rule we had since our inception, something we promise the parents in our literature, and I think most will agree, it is a good rule and there for the member's protection. Another one is, we insist our members wear hats and most of the time, shirts. The reason? Not because we don't enjoy the suntans but rather because 1) the school we used for our home camps had a rule for the females (no sports bras or halters allowed on premise) so we equally brought that on to the males as well; and 2) with all the info available now about skin cancer from direct sun, it seems wise to look out for the members health.

Anyway, I will keep checking here (and apologizing to Allegiance Elite for getting off the main track of mourning yet another friend not on tour this summer). Or if you guys would rather, e-mail me direct. Would love to carry on the conversation.

[Canadacorps]

Interesting thoughts from Iplaytimpani and soonerfan004! I'm curious though to sooner - exactly what kinds of topics came up and were worked out through this "council" if you will? I know we never formally had such a "feedback" group in place and am curious as to what types of things the members were willing to bring up? It could be a great idea as long as it didn't turn into the weekly gripe session! I know we had some meetings over the years when the members would request it, but often times, they asked to have NO staff or managment present which I took to mean it was an issue they wanted to address by themselves, for themselves. Perhaps a council would be a more positive step in this direction.

And as timpani puts it, managment does need to know what is going on within the membership. Where I guess I would draw the line though for our corps is when members would want to meet to try and change rules that were.. simply put... rules. For example, males and females have ALWAYS slept on opposite sides of the gym. That is a rule we had since our inception, something we promise the parents in our literature, and I think most will agree, it is a good rule and there for the member's protection. Another one is, we insist our members wear hats and most of the time, shirts. The reason? Not because we don't enjoy the suntans but rather because 1) the school we used for our home camps had a rule for the females (no sports bras or halters allowed on premise) so we equally brought that on to the males as well; and 2) with all the info available now about skin cancer from direct sun, it seems wise to look out for the members health.

Anyway, I will keep checking here (and apologizing to Allegiance Elite for getting off the main track of mourning yet another friend not on tour this summer). Or if you guys would rather, e-mail me direct. Would love to carry on the conversation.

I think that what Sooner and Iplaytimpani may be getting at, is a discussion re: How the membership feels... Not like an Island council(watching survivor too much) to vote and begin changing the organization's rules, policies, etc. as that is obviously up to the management and board, but a way to have their concerns voiced and be heard.

After that point, it would be up to the board and management to see what they can do with the comments they are provided with. Happy members=More + Returning members.

Also, In keeping with the route this conversation has gone, I'm wondering, how much of the problem with membership in "struggling" (for lack of a better term) corps is due to a lack of Organization? Eg. people not being sure where rehearsals are, parents not knowing what the fees/deadlines are, or what camp schedules are going to be like.. etc.

Again, I suppose this issue would ultimately boil down to lack of communication again..

Edited May 21, 2006 by Canadacorps