Height and weight requirements for colorguard

[kusankusho]

Drum corps should NOT be considered a viable option for weight loss!! It's not permanent and it's not a LIFESTYLE that can be maintained!

Don't you find it even the least bit unhealthy to replace "diet, exercise and stress management" that will last a lifetime with "three months of drum corps?"

I don't know a SINGLE kid who went off tour and back to their regular life -- even if it ISN'T sedentary -- who didn't put most or all and more of their pre-tour weight back on!!

It's not exactly good for your body to fluctuate that much so frequently. Great way to develop some gall stones.

The fitness regimen you establish in drum corps for three months is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain in the off season. The amount of activity they involve themselves in for 12+ hours a day could never be duplicated off season.. and to eat three squares and a snack (the food habit provided in all the corps I've worked with) WITHOUT that level of activity every day is just a recipe for disaster.

A kid MUST develop a healthy and active lifestyle of their own to return to FIRST. Using drum corps as a way to drop weight is no better than a fad diet. If you don't keep it up (no matter WHAT diet it is), you'll put the weight back on and then some!

Stef

Well - then we can close all the football teams etc....

Corps isn't just 3 months like a football season - it's year round. Our study just covered tour but I'm convinced the gains would have started back in October. You don't arrive in a corps the day you leave on tour so the shock factor isn't what you say it is, and practices, camps etc all start with a running and stretching block, at least they should. If you are over weight and jump in to a Cadets tour the day before they leave, yes - very dangerous, but that's not realistic.

You can never guarantee that the lessons a kid will learn will stay with them, about healthy living or teamwork, personal responsibility etc. Same is true for anything - I'm sure there are one or two overweight US Marine vetrans out there.

There is a large group of kids out there that, overweight or not, need physical activitiy and don't enjoy the high school team sport thing. Drum corps is great for a kid like that.

Jim

Edited June 9, 2006 by kusankusho

[Slow Adam]

the drumline

That too. :P

[LancerFi]

Things have been done to the male body/uniform during the tick system. The judges were closer to the members then.

Don't think it's only about guard. I know specifically the things that were done to entice the judging community in the horn line.....

[ScribeToo]

Well - then we can close all the football teams etc....

Corps isn't just 3 months like a football season - it's year round. Our study just covered tour but I'm convinced the gains would have started back in October. You don't arrive in a corps the day you leave on tour so the shock factor isn't what you say it is, and practices, camps etc all start with a running and stretching block, at least they should. If you are over weight and jump in to a Cadets tour the day before they leave, yes - very dangerous, but that's not realistic.

You can never guarantee that the lessons a kid will learn will stay with them, about healthy living or teamwork, personal responsibility etc. Same is true for anything - I'm sure there are one or two overweight US Marine vetrans out there.

There is a large group of kids out there that, overweight or not, need physical activitiy and don't enjoy the high school team sport thing. Drum corps is great for a kid like that.

Jim

Did your study only look at first timers? Were you looking at a number of years' worth of data? Does it concern you that members who were returning were in not-so-peak physical shape going into a season? Weren't they at peak physical shape just a few short months previous? What happened??

The more compelling research, IMO, would be to see how the fitness levels of returning members fluctuates from pre-season, in-season, post-season and back to pre-season. THAT data will be more helpful to you before you start recommending drum corps as a "great way to lose weight."

No doubt, most kids DO lose weight and get into shape for drum corps but the FACT remains that it is not a sustainable fitness level for the great majority of people who do it.

It's a great activity. You get into great shape (for a short time) but NO ONE should recommend drum corps as a viable option for long term weight loss. What you get from it is a transient result and the subsequent re-gain can be even MORE damaging to the self-image and physical well-being of an initially overweight member over the long term.

Stef

[kusankusho]

Did your study only look at first timers? Were you looking at a number of years' worth of data? Does it concern you that members who were returning were in not-so-peak physical shape going into a season? Weren't they at peak physical shape just a few short months previous? What happened??

The more compelling research, IMO, would be to see how the fitness levels of returning members fluctuates from pre-season, in-season, post-season and back to pre-season. THAT data will be more helpful to you before you start recommending drum corps as a "great way to lose weight."

No doubt, most kids DO lose weight and get into shape for drum corps but the FACT remains that it is not a sustainable fitness level for the great majority of people who do it.

It's a great activity. You get into great shape (for a short time) but NO ONE should recommend drum corps as a viable option for long term weight loss. What you get from it is a transient result and the subsequent re-gain can be even MORE damaging to the self-image and physical well-being of an initially overweight member over the long term.

Stef

Hi Stef.

Last year was the first of a multi-year study. I'm not with Dutch anymore but I understand that the folks from Wilfred Laurier University were out to do the pre-season testing last camp.

Of course you are right when you say that a 3 month hihg-performance burst in a life of inactivity is potentially damaging, but again - drum corps isn't like that and there are long term benefits. My daughter wasn't that active when she joined drum corps but she is in great shape today thanks to 5 years of drum corps and winter guard and the lessons she learned there. I know from firsthand observation that the benefits DO carry forward.

And I never said "drum corps is a great way to lose weight" - my wife and I have always focussed on our daughters being fit and healthy as opposed to reaching a desired weight range. I said that drum corps is a great physical activity for kids that just aren't turned on by football or hockey, and they should be given the chance to participate, not turned away because they don't measure up to an arbitrary asthetic evaluation. Cutting a girl because she's not ther "right" weight, height shape sounds too much like those gymnastics and ballet horror stories that make thinking parents cringe. This is a youth activity, isn't it? For the kids? Is there any sincerity in those words when this stuff happens I wonder.....

Jim

Edited June 9, 2006 by kusankusho

[ScribeToo]

Hi Stef.

Last year was the first of a multi-year study. I'm not with Dutch anymore but I understand that the folks from Wilfred Laurier University were out to do the pre-season testing last camp.

Of course you are right when you say that a 3 month hihg-performance burst in a life of inactivity is potentially damaging, but again - drum corps isn't like that and there are long term benefits. My daughter wasn't that active when she joined drum corps but she is in great shape today thanks to 5 years of drum corps and winter guard and the lessons she learned there. I know from firsthand observation that the benefits DO carry forward.

And I never said "drum corps is a great way to lose weight" - my wife and I have always focussed on our daughters being fit and healthy as opposed to reaching a desired weight range. I said that drum corps is a great physical activity for kids that just aren't turned on by football or hockey, and they should be given the chance to participate, not turned away because they don't measure up to an arbitrary asthetic evaluation. Cutting a girl because she's not ther "right" weight, height shape sounds too much like those gymnastics and ballet horror stories that make thinking parents cringe. This is a youth activity, isn't it? For the kids? Is there any sincerity in those words when this stuff happens I wonder.....

Jim

As a volunteer and an adopted mom to hundreds of kids over the years, I too have first hand experience with what I'm talking about. No, it wasn't my job to raise any of these kids.. but I have seen them grow and change and change again..

No one (especially not me) is denying the great physical activity found in drum corps.. BUT to say that no drum corps should cut someone because of their size is no more valid than saying "drum corps is a great way to lose weight."

Many drum corps are populated by audition. As I said earlier, an audition is more than just an evaluation of your abilities. It also measures intangibles and some tangibles like physical fitness and how well one will or won't "fit" the image of the show being designed. People are gonna get cut for their size.

NOT every corps does this so there are other options if someone gets cut for size. I REFUSE to advocate that every corps should look beyond someone's size.

I once met a kid in wheelchair who could play a mean trumpet -- like.. on par with any of the best I've heard in Div I.. but he physically could not keep up "marching" (with an assistant) with a Division I corps. Speed would never be an issue, it's agility that will be the problem. That physical limitation excludes him. By audition, he would not be offered a spot because he can't fill ENOUGH of the requirements needed to take the spot that's open.

And there are OTHER corps that WILL accommodate him in one way or another and he will likely find a place to "march drum corps" if he chooses to do so!

There's diversity all over this activity. Diversity sometimes means that some groups are exclusive. You have to be at top physical condition. You have to be at the top of your performance game. You have to have the best attitude on the field. That's part of why people want to be in those groups. They are elite. They are the best of the best. (and I know not only the best of the best have exercised their right to be exclusive, I'm just making the point). Kids want to BE all those things, too.

NO ONE is saying "don't march" if you get cut for size. What we are and have been saying is "don't give up." "Persevere" and "keep trying." BUT.. eyes open about the world out there, kiddies. It's not always fair and not everyone will bow at your feet because you've got SOME of what they want. Some people can afford to say to you, "It's all or nothing."

Stef

[greggmanX-Kingsmen]

This is as old as the hills. One former director of the Anaheim Kingsmen used to bar overweight girls from the rifle line, and that was back in the mid-70s.

[byline]

Color Guard is often referred to as "visual ensemble" -- and while I understand that how much you weigh SHOULDN'T matter and that your weight or height should not prevent you from accomplishing anything.. the visual program for a drum corps needs to just be a visual program.. not necessarily designed to work around or accommodate a few individuals who (for instance) may not be able to wear/comfortable wearing/or visually appealing wearing a unitard with a rope wrapped around their leg as a uniform.

Well, I guess the way I see it is that when I marched guard in corps, it was a far more egalitarian system (and guard was every bit as visual "back in my day" as it is now; it's just that the focus of the visual was more on the equipment, itself, rather than each individual body). You could be of pretty much any height or weight, and as long as you could march well, handle your equipment and carry your weight (no pun intended), you were worthy of marching in the color guard. I think that's also a huge advantage of the uniform as opposed to the costume most guards wear now. Wearing a uniform literally meant what it said; each guard member appeared uniform courtesy of what they wore, not because they were of identical heights and weights.

The focus, IMO, should be on whether a person is physically fit to do the job. There are many people who are considered "overweight" according to some weight chart, yet they are in better physical shape than most of us.

The height and weight restrictions are revealing in another way; they show that the focus is on close-up, not the overall picture. Which is odd, because for most of us, the way we watch a show is the same as we've always watched it: from a distance.

I'd hoped those days of being overly fixated with appearance were over . . . but obviously that's not the case.

[byline]

While I agree that being heavier can result in more serious injuries, with proper training/warmups alot of these mishaps can be avoided in the first place.

And while it would be nice if everyone could be perfectly healthy and everyone weigh exactly the same for their heighth, it isn't going to happen. The problem is telling these young women that their body type isn't acceptable, is part of the cause for so many eating disorders. Paula Abdul is a perfect example. When she started dance lessons, they told her she didn't have a dancers body, and she ended up with an eating disorder for many years.

[kusankusho]

This is as old as the hills. One former director of the Anaheim Kingsmen used to bar overweight girls from the rifle line, and that was back in the mid-70s.

I know - this isn't new. I thought we had learned a bit since then. I hoped.

There are studies and TV exposes on bulemia etc from gymnastics and ballet pressures to conform, and we all gasp in horror and say what a terrible thing it is. I wonder if there will ever be a similar study on drum corps.

The instructors that are cutting these kids - who are they trying to please? Judges? Audience? Or their own asthetic tastes? My feeling - I don't care if a kid is a couple pounds bigger than the girl next to her - if she cracks a six - I'm impressed!

Think about it. A kid works hard in div 3 for a few seasons - dreams of marching div 1 and gets told she's got all kinds of skills but she's too short, or too heavy and she's cut on that basis - anyone else see this as morally bankrupt or am I just too much of a sensitive new-age guy?