Let's Discuss A Solution...

[Piper]

Alright we have some discussion! ^OO^

Now to stir up the pot a little more... :P

In response to the "2 bosses" analogy: What if DCI ran it all? I don't think that having a more regionalized tour at the start of the season would require a separate entity to manage that tour. It might, however, require DCI to hire a few more staff members to handle logstics. And if another entity was formed, wouldn't that just further the attrition of corps we already see today? (Note that by attrition I don't mean weakening, I just mean loss in numbers.)

More about regionalization: I'm not sure I properly described the model I'm advocating. The current touring model does actual have a small element of regionalization in it, as Legalhack pointed out. I'm pondering what would happen if DCI were to aggressively pursue involving more local sponsors in shows, in addition to having more shows in the same region around approximately the same time towards the beginning of the season. With the "big guns" being so spread out (Legalhack points to Crown, Cadets and Boston as the only actualy East Coast D1 corps), how do we make this work? I think that ticket sales would take care of themselves if the advertising is handled correctly (as I suggested, utilizing local media outlets and having the sponsors advertise in their own venues, which would cost them nothing). What if you had Boston taking the Northeast along with some D2/3 corps, Cadets and Southwind taking the "Middle East" along with some D2/3 and then Crown, Spirit and again some D2/3 taking the Southeast. The upper Midwest is actually pretty packed with corps, so they could even cover some other regions slightly outside their own but overlapping. I'll get out a map and figure it out if I have to! The only problem is that you wouldn't have any real "competition" as most of the D1 corps would be travelling with D2/3 (except for the case of the upper Midwest)...BUT, it's my understanding that the way D2/3 is a tour at the beginning and end of the summer. So that wouldn't affect them at all as far as having to extend their touring time, and it would also increase their exposure and allow them to perform later at night so they get to experience some of the same benefits that only D1 corps currently enjoy. After the initial "regional tour" (which is only a subset of the total touring experience) the corps that do a full tour could then start to coalesce...so you'd see more D1 corps start to tour together nationally as the summer approaches the big regional shows, thus bringing the competitive aspect of the activity more into focus and winding up eventually to where ever finals is held...except that will be in Indianapolis for quite a while which gives DCI the chance to really grind up some support and form some local shows that will last at least ten years. And one more thing about the competition...that's not really what this activity is about, right? It's a huge part, for sure, and I see nothing wrong with being competitive, but let's keep that secondary to education and exposure.

Now about exposure: I think this needs to be one of OUR biggest efforts. Notice I didn't say DCI I say "our". As in everyone who marches, has marched, plans to marches, or makes a living being involved in this activity (or volunteers!). I find too often that people are ignorant about drum corps, but they know about the latest musical or album to come out. This is simply a matter of better and more extensive marketing. I think that too may of us (me included) are content to sit on our posteriors and keep this activity tightly clutched in our grasp. People "wouldn't understand" we say. And to some extent, it's true. But when there are high school band directors out there that refuse to bring their students to a competition or theater showing of an event (yes that really does happen), when there are college professors and musicians who think that drum corps "ruins your chops" and "turns you into a horrible musician," when there are people who still think that drum corps is in the "dark ages" of instruction...why do we accept that? A drum corps show should turn out every music, theater, and dance enthusiast in a community, as well as the curious and those who just like to be entertained. Just showing showing a broadcast on ESPN2 (as noteworthy as that is) and holding BOA clinics isn't going to cut it. We need to be targetting individuals and groups...it's what politicians do, it's what marketers and businesses do, and it works. This is especially effective when done in a "grassroots" style. Get DCI events on local listservs, post fliers, whatever it takes! I find that a consistent and determined effort will always be rewarded, no matter how daunting the task may seem at first.

Oh and yes...the Middle East...I meant the area on the Eastern Seaboard between the Southeast and the Northeast. B)

I know one thing for sure.......your fingertips are stronger than mine.......you shouldn't put a former snare drummer to shame like that (just kidding) :P . Seriously, there's some good points in your posts that should be taken into consideration. I just hope the powers that be are reading them for the good of all.

[mistofflies]

I know one thing for sure.......your fingertips are stronger than mine.......you shouldn't put a former snare drummer to shame like that (just kidding) :P . Seriously, there's some good points in your posts that should be taken into consideration. I just hope the powers that be are reading them for the good of all.

Thanks! (I've played piano my entire life, so that's where it comes from...) B)

[mistofflies]

Ok I'm going to make one more attempt at this....

If you have any opinions at all, please share them. If you think regionalization as I have proposed it sucks, and you have a better idea, please suggest it! If you'd like me to better explain why I think my idea might work, please ask! If you think my idea could use some tweaking, tweak away!

[WWonka]

Regionalization like you suggested sounds like a great idea. The DII & DIII's could use the exposure with the DI's early in the season. They used to get more of it. It saves on expenses for some of the lower DI's that need it. I'm not sure how the advertising aspect would work out but it would be worth a try, etc....

BUT wasn't the orginal regional setup very similar to this? And it was done away with. I don't think it really failed it just was not what a lot of folks in power wanted. There is MUCH more benefit for the smaller DI's and II's and III's in that setup than the big boys. But what's the upside for them? I know you can say "for the greater good, etc." But that didn't seem to matter a helluva lot last week why would it now? :(

The idea of a touring lineup of super corps only was proposed some time back. It is happening.

For something like this to happen you have to have a motivation for the power people to want it. What is that motivation?

And don't get me wrong I would love to see it...

[mistofflies]

Regionalization like you suggested sounds like a great idea. The DII & DIII's could use the exposure with the DI's early in the season. They used to get more of it. It saves on expenses for some of the lower DI's that need it. I'm not sure how the advertising aspect would work out but it would be worth a try, etc....

BUT wasn't the orginal regional setup very similar to this? And it was done away with. I don't think it really failed it just was not what a lot of folks in power wanted. There is MUCH more benefit for the smaller DI's and II's and III's in that setup than the big boys. But what's the upside for them? I know you can say "for the greater good, etc." But that didn't seem to matter a helluva lot last week why would it now? :(

The idea of a touring lineup of super corps only was proposed some time back. It is happening.

For something like this to happen you have to have a motivation for the power people to want it. What is that motivation?

And don't get me wrong I would love to see it...

Perhaps we should shift the focus of the discussion for a second. Why did DCI form, who controls it, and what authority does it have? I'm afraid I don't know a whole #### of a lot about the history of the fromation of DCI, but thanks to reading DCP I know quite a bit about the claimed effects of its formation.

I know that there's a board of directors made up of corps directors from various corps but who sits on it, and why (I think it's primarily the top 12 directors with little D2/3 representation)? Who really controls DCI, and what does DCI get out of this whole deal? What are DCI's interests? What about the fans and the members and the alumni, how do they get a say in what happens other than by spending or with-holding money?

I mean, in my head, I would assume that DCI exists to oversee all of the marching drum and bugle corps activity. It should serve to further the promotion and advancement of ALL corps, and hold corps accountable. It would maintain a database of alumni around the country to help promote drum corps and provide connections and services when needed. It would undersee marketing campaigns, and fundraisers which would go towards helping to maintain our country corps and even start new ones.

But it seems like DCI doesn't do that. From what I've seen and read and heard (notice emphasis)...DCI exists primarily to try and optimize profitable returns at shows by strengthening the already strong, bringing them together, and building up their image. And no, I don't mean to turn this into a "DCI sucks" discussion but rather, a "What is DCI doing now, and how could it change for the better?" discussion. This past summer I had a bad experience with someone representing DCI which may somewhat show what I'm talking about. On semis night, I walked up to the booth where they were selling dvds to see if they would show our performance. There was already another couple of my buddies from the corps standing at the big-screen TV they had setup, watching the corps that was currently on. They had already asked if they could show our corps and so far we hadn't come up. As we were standing there, more members walked up until there were about 10 or 15 of us standing there. I asked the man running the booth if he could put on our corps, from any year, because we'd like to watch it. He looked at me pointblank and said "Not while there are Madison alumni and fans walking around that might buy something." This was after the MSARP performance (that was semis, right?) and so there were quite a few of them around. It just kind of rubbed me the wrong way that, with a group of kids who had been performing all summer wanted to watch either a performance they had done or a historical performance from their corps, money took precedent. Is that representative of all of DCI? I hope not.

[audiodb]

Perhaps we should shift the focus of the discussion for a second. Why did DCI form, who controls it, and what authority does it have?

DCI was formed by touring corps, to serve touring corps. It's authority, however, has extended far beyond just those few "member corps".

I know that there's a board of directors made up of corps directors from various corps but who sits on it, and why (I think it's primarily the top 12 directors with little D2/3 representation)?

Ultimately, it's the directors of the voting member corps (division I units that have made top 21 three years running, or something like that - membership is not available to division II/III units). They have chosen to delegate most of the BOD tasks to an "executive board" consisting of about four of those corps directors, DCI's executive director and several "at-large directors" (people with relevant business or activity expertise, but no corps affiliation). One representative from division II/III is allowed to participate in discussions at executive board meetings, but he/she cannot vote on any decisions this board makes.

Who really controls DCI, and what does DCI get out of this whole deal? What are DCI's interests?

Trying to answer those questions will send this thread into a tailspin of tangential debate.

What about the fans and the members and the alumni, how do they get a say in what happens other than by spending or with-holding money?

That's about it - unless discussions on DCP have any influence on the decision-makers.

I mean, in my head, I would assume that DCI exists to oversee all of the marching drum and bugle corps activity. It should serve to further the promotion and advancement of ALL corps, and hold corps accountable. It would maintain a database of alumni around the country to help promote drum corps and provide connections and services when needed. It would undersee marketing campaigns, and fundraisers which would go towards helping to maintain our country corps and even start new ones.

But it seems like DCI doesn't do that.

As you are starting to see, DCI wasn't originally formed for that purpose. DCI's governance structure still fosters the "members-only" mission of it's founders. And while DCI's mission statements, PR materials and actions all show some attention toward non-member corps over the years, it remains a debate to this day (not just on this board, but in the DCI boardroom) as to whether DCI should serve anyone other than 20 or so "member corps".

[BOBSMYTH]

If you are advocating a return to independent regional organizations, there are many issues that you would have to deal with - the first being defining their reason for existence.

A couple examples of items to be worked out:

1) Corps pay - in the good old days with DCE, DCW and DCM, they had different pay scales for the corps who performed at their events. So, if a corps from Ohio pointed their busses east one year and west the next year, it had real financial implications to that corps.

2) What do you do with corps that are not located close enough to join a region? Where do corps from Texas, Kansas, Tennessee or Alberta go - DCM, DCE or DCW?

If you want DCI to oversee the regions you still need at least 3 things to fall into place:

1) A critical mass of groups to compete and travel within a given geographic area.

2) Show sponsors who are willing to hold an event. (DCI would have to schedule carefully to ensure that sponsors are not competing with each other for the same audience.)

3) Headling corps. I think this is one of the most important issues and the one most often overlooked on DCP. In order for a sponsor to be interested in taking on a show and in order for the ticket buying public to be interested in attending, you need one or more "headliner" groups to be in competition. If The Cavaliers or the Blue Devils are in the show, no problem. What if the show sponsor is offered either the Bluecoats, Carolina Crown or Blue Knights as the headliner for their event? It may depend on the area of the country - but that would probably still work. However, somewhere an imaginary line is drawn (top 6, top 8, top 10?) - any groups below that line are great to have in the event but they cannot headline the event. In other words, to be more blunt - which corps puts butts in the seats? Which groups drive ticket sales?

Unfortunately, in this case it is the audience members who are being elitist. There are large numbers of fans (even engaged people like DCP members) who will not buy a ticket to a show where an 11th place, 15th place or 21st place corps was the headliner.

IMO, I think one of the keys is the parity efforts that have been started in the last few years. Practically speaking, I don't forsee a day any time soon where there will be 20 or 25 corps all as good as the top 4 or 5 are now. However, I can see some of the current middle of the pack groups getting better and possibly rising to potential "headliner" status. Consider the implications if we had 15 legitimate headliners able to hold events all around the country instead of the limited number we have today. (It doesn't matter what your opinion on regionalization is, I think that would still be a big step forward.)

[piojon]

maybe though if they recieved more regionilized status, they would be able to become a powerhouse corps. i think regionlization is a good i dea. you also set it up for div 2 and div 3......or create a open class and class a and get rid of 3(combine it with 2)

[audiodb]

3) Headling corps. I think this is one of the most important issues and the one most often overlooked on DCP. In order for a sponsor to be interested in taking on a show and in order for the ticket buying public to be interested in attending, you need one or more "headliner" groups to be in competition.

(rolls eyes)

If The Cavaliers or the Blue Devils are in the show, no problem. What if the show sponsor is offered either the Bluecoats, Carolina Crown or Blue Knights as the headliner for their event? It may depend on the area of the country - but that would probably still work. However, somewhere an imaginary line is drawn (top 6, top 8, top 10?) - any groups below that line are great to have in the event but they cannot headline the event. In other words, to be more blunt - which corps puts butts in the seats? Which groups drive ticket sales?

No particular corps can claim sole credit for that. People pay to see a contest. Sure, given a choice, they would rather see the winners. But they shouldn't know in advance who the winners are going to be.

The only reason there is even the illusion of "headliner" corps is because DCI has had the same "winners" for so many years running. And thus, your marketing problem is not that you can't sell corps #11, but rather, you can't sell a contest without bonafide competition.

Unfortunately, in this case it is the audience members who are being elitist. There are large numbers of fans (even engaged people like DCP members) who will not buy a ticket to a show where an 11th place, 15th place or 21st place corps was the headliner.

This wasn't a problem pre-DCI, when fans didn't know who the 15th place corps would be in advance. Of course, even today, the afternoon shows in San Antonio and other domes have no top-8 corps, but people still show up.

IMO, I think one of the keys is the parity efforts that have been started in the last few years. Practically speaking, I don't forsee a day any time soon where there will be 20 or 25 corps all as good as the top 4 or 5 are now. However, I can see some of the current middle of the pack groups getting better and possibly rising to potential "headliner" status. Consider the implications if we had 15 legitimate headliners able to hold events all around the country instead of the limited number we have today. (It doesn't matter what your opinion on regionalization is, I think that would still be a big step forward.)

That would be HUGE.

I just hope DCI is following up on that "parity" stuff, because there was supposed to be more on that topic last January (or was it two years ago?), and I haven't heard a peep about it since.

[piojon]

we can wish