MJN Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 This is something that I have thought about for years. Do drumlines get more credit from fans and judges for playing easier parts perfectly clean, or harder parts that may not be "perfect"? I realize this all may be personal preference, but I thought it may be intereting. For me I would rather watch/listen to a line that goes for it and plays and may not always be perfect rather than a line that plays easy stuff crystal clear. Over at least the last 25 years, I don't think any line plays parts as hard as BD. Not always clean -dirty alternating flams in 02, some nasty rolls in 00- to name two, but always hard. I remember counting the flams in their solos from the 80's, how about the solos from 82/83?or the drum to drum/backsticking from 86 when one guy even caught his stick between drums and it was still clean? I think SCV and Cadets are close behind. What can you say about Cadets and their breaks in 93,94,96, etc.? The 93 snare break, while practically running? b**bs Yes, no flams, but singles and 5's (right handed) - I love it. I did hate the way the drums sounded. Same for 96- speed, moving, fast rolls. No one else even trys this anymore. SCV? A few examples - 90/ Flam 5's all right handed, 91/ awesome book - feature a little hairy- then out of nowhere :o inverts (last left a little dirty) but awesome!! Scouts 91 alternating flam 5's, sweet snare breaks from 93-95 - not always crystal, but hard w/alt. flams Flam 5's, blurtas etc. (all written by a certain corp's Exec. Director :) ) Scouts 02 - Hard - one little dirty spot, and sweet sounding drums. Not to mention countless others doing crazy stuff (BRIDGEMEN). All this against some lines that play much easier parts, but perfectly executed. I watched Cavaliers in mid June of 02 for there whole warm -up before a show. I was amazed at two things- 1. It was almost perfectly clean in June, 2. the snares didn't play one flam. Thats not to say they didn't have flams/harder parts in their show, I just didn't see them. Bluecoats have had a huge increase in demand and exposure the last few years. I do realize that talent and experience play a huge part. 02 PR snareline had one vet, I think, and they were not great - basses yes,/ as compared to 06 PR with incredible talent and a crystal clear show. Look out for this year for PR again- for snares-6 vets, and one 18 year old that I know who was in middle(not section leader) of Boston last year and finished 3rd in I&E as a 17 yr. old.!!! It is hard to compare lines with huge differences in talent. 95 Scouts had 9 snares - the middle 5? three of them had 4yrs.(I'm pretty sure)and the other two had 6 yrs. all with Scouts. That's impressive. This year? All 8 are in first year with the corps, but are playing really cool parts - right now. I'm sure I've forgotten some obvious things, but I guess I'd like to see a line, if they have the talent and ability, with the right guy writing the parts, just let them hang out and drum!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempotantrum Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 My personal preference? I'd rather see lines execute then not execute. To me, if it's attempted and not played correctly, then it's not really worth much of anything. I'd rather see a line play really well and be muscial (which doesn't get enough credit for the control that that takes) then a line play a bunch of notes just because the guy writing likes to play cheese inverts off the left at 176. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJN Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 My personal preference? I'd rather see lines execute then not execute. To me, if it's attempted and not played correctly, then it's not really worth much of anything. I'd rather see a line play really well and be muscial (which doesn't get enough credit for the control that that takes) then a line play a bunch of notes just because the guy writing likes to play cheese inverts off the left at 176. I totally agree --of course you want to see them execute- but it won't be perfect every time. As far as musicality, that is one thing I don't think the Cavaliers get enough credit for. I just don't like seeing hosed down parts for the sake of playing clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvertrombone Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Not exactly on topic, but its drumline so allow me latitude. The PR '03 show where the drumline wedge goes through and, ahem, 'disturbs' the horn block in the Canon reprise...did all the drummers of the world just stand up and go... ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJN Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 YES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXDSFLXx Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 As a percussion judge for a local circuit here, execution and musicality is something we definitely look at. Personally, I would rather see a snareline execute a simple to intermediate musical phrase with high clarity and technique, than to see a snareline play beef with difficulty and lots of clarity issues. Yes, musicality is also a factor as well as effect when it comes to play certain musical passages. A long triplet roll at 205bpm played perfectly and executed with maturity can be just as a effective as semi-clean beef or stick tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass5 Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 (edited) I feel the same about the percussion section as I do Brass & Visual - Cleanliness first. I think the difficulty of parts in the drum line, brass and especially marching is boardering on too much. If it can't be cleaned up by the end of July then its too difficult. I don't believe only peole at shows in August should see and hear clean shows. Except for the top 3 or 4 corps at finals most corps IMHO have way too many issues with their shows. Back in the day a "grandstand" was defined as any mistake a person sitting in the audience could see or hear. Don't get me wrong, I do really enjoy and very much appreciate the difficulty in todays shows - just much more so when executed perfectly. SCV drumline in 2004 is a great example. Edited January 31, 2007 by bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorcoly Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 As someone who marched beginning in the late 70's, aging out in 1986, and being a fan since 1976; I can confidentally say that "I've seen it all" with regard to drum lines through the years. Everything from 27th Lancers warm-ups in the late 70's where the snare line played a 128 measure roll (YES ROLL!!), without error as the brass and guard entered the field (saw that at an exhibition they did in 1978), to the 1998 Phantom Regiment back-sticking section during the Slavonic Dances percussion break, to the 2006 Bluecoats playing some of the meatiest parts I have seen in years!!! So..... here is my two centavos: + I take issue with being able to play as show as cleanly as some lines do (no names mentioned) by mid to late June when most of the book is eigth notes with a few flams and double-stops here and there, along with some segemented tenor and bass licks thrown in. What educational value are we teaching drummers and percussionists?? The PAS and International Association of Rudimental Drummers should be outraged at some of the books being given 18's and higher these days. + OK -- I'm ready for the laser beams with this comment -- but I am 120% in favor of BRINGING BACK THE DEMAND AND EXCELLENCE subcaptions on the percussion sheets as they existed years ago!! Give credit where credit is due, but only if it's played CLEANLY and MAKES SENSE!!!! I guess it would be nice to see a combo of the old PA and Musical Analysis sub caps. Let;s face it, with a five octave marimba being used, some pits can add some tasty music to the bottom line. + I'm TIRED of snares that sound like the players are playing on granite or formica counter tops!!! Cranking the snot out of the drum ain't always the best thing. Especially when your playing a jazzier book!! + Ok-- here's another novel idea (maybe not). The activity is called "Drum & Bugle Corps." Make it a REQUIREMENT that there has to be AT LEAST a 45 second percussion only section of the show!! There have been years where only one, two, or three Div I corps actually featured their drum lines!!! Thats it for now.... I'm sure I'll add more one other reply. Call me old-fashined, but maybe I'm NOT so old-fashined because I saw some teenagers going ga-ga the past four or five years during some tasty percussion licks. All of these young people were not even a thought in anyone's eye when Bayonne played "Black Market Juggler!!!" 'Nuff for now!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJN Posted February 2, 2007 Author Share Posted February 2, 2007 As someone who marched beginning in the late 70's, aging out in 1986, and being a fan since 1976; I can confidentally say that "I've seen it all" with regard to drum lines through the years. Everything from 27th Lancers warm-ups in the late 70's where the snare line played a 128 measure roll (YES ROLL!!), without error as the brass and guard entered the field (saw that at an exhibition they did in 1978), to the 1998 Phantom Regiment back-sticking section during the Slavonic Dances percussion break, to the 2006 Bluecoats playing some of the meatiest parts I have seen in years!!!So..... here is my two centavos: + I take issue with being able to play as show as cleanly as some lines do (no names mentioned) by mid to late June when most of the book is eigth notes with a few flams and double-stops here and there, along with some segemented tenor and bass licks thrown in. What educational value are we teaching drummers and percussionists?? The PAS and International Association of Rudimental Drummers should be outraged at some of the books being given 18's and higher these days. + OK -- I'm ready for the laser beams with this comment -- but I am 120% in favor of BRINGING BACK THE DEMAND AND EXCELLENCE subcaptions on the percussion sheets as they existed years ago!! Give credit where credit is due, but only if it's played CLEANLY and MAKES SENSE!!!! I guess it would be nice to see a combo of the old PA and Musical Analysis sub caps. Let;s face it, with a five octave marimba being used, some pits can add some tasty music to the bottom line. + I'm TIRED of snares that sound like the players are playing on granite or formica counter tops!!! Cranking the snot out of the drum ain't always the best thing. Especially when your playing a jazzier book!! + Ok-- here's another novel idea (maybe not). The activity is called "Drum & Bugle Corps." Make it a REQUIREMENT that there has to be AT LEAST a 45 second percussion only section of the show!! There have been years where only one, two, or three Div I corps actually featured their drum lines!!! Thats it for now.... I'm sure I'll add more one other reply. Call me old-fashined, but maybe I'm NOT so old-fashined because I saw some teenagers going ga-ga the past four or five years during some tasty percussion licks. All of these young people were not even a thought in anyone's eye when Bayonne played "Black Market Juggler!!!" 'Nuff for now!! :) ^OO^ ^OO^ ^OO^ NICE!!! I had never heard about 27 doing that. I'm not quite as old, becoming a fan in 86. I totallly agree about the snare sounds. It seems those black Remo heads sound a little bit better to me, and they feel better to play on, but come on, most top 12 lines don't even sound like snare drums. By they way some people reading this have no idea who Bayonne is. Awesome post Victorcoly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danieltenor Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 I like it when it's the hardest book ever, and still clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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