camel lips Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 There seems to me to be some financial merit in turning over the Bb horns before they need major overhaul, which would not be cheap. Sure there is,,, Most corps are selling the used yamaha Xenos for about $950 bucks. Take the retail price of what the horn cost new and deduct 40% for a wholesale price.That is probably what the corps paid for them in the first place because they bought in bulk.Then they turn around and sell the horn for what???40% of retail,35% off retail??? Its not costing corps hardly anything to trade out horns every year.That was the plan from the get go for the conversion to Bb concert instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Skyliner Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Another hit for Michigan. We already had Pfizer lay off 2400 in Ann Arbor, a few thousand in my previous company, Whirlpool is laying off, not to mention all the hacking and slashing that the big 3 autos are doing. Yep, it's good to live in the ONLY state that is doing poorly while 49 others do well. And Georgia. Manufactuing in the USA is dieing. Slowly, But surly! This World Trade stuff might be great for the Consumer NOW. BUT, in the long run it could/will be Very Hurtful. Why did anyone ever think Drum Corps or Marching Band would be exempt. This is one more peice of straw. Just wonder how many more can be carried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martybucs Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Pressure the corps you support to buy American....like Kanstul....like BUGLES. Amen. The next job that's lost could be yours. Besides, I tell everyone I know that I succomed to the low price and bought a Yamaha C trumpet and a Bb Mike Vax signature trumpet. Both professional model horns. Both have been plagued by poor construction problems. They sound nice and play well, but stuff keeps falling off them. I'm not rough with them either. A friend of mine has an older Yamaha that he bought in college in the late 70s and the valve casings wore out a few years ago. I have a Bach from 1945 and made in New York that hasn't come close to wearing out. I had a Blessing ML1S that was a veritable tank compared to my Yamahas. It played well too. I'm a soft touch and I sold that one to a student cheap. Didn't cost that much in the first place, but a good playing horn for the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchromik Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 You're absolutely right. However, I am going to go WAY out on a limb and guess that perhaps they spent less than buying entire new horn lines. Maybe? Ya think? Yes, agreed. My only point is that I have never heard of anybody doing the type of annual overhaul and check out they did. Even in 93', their 9th season on the grass, those horns looked rather new. We are talking a little more then dents removed, braces soldered here. Every fall we came in to discover like-new horns. Over a stretch of say 9 or 10 years they may have exceeded the replacement costs. I am not sure that is the most economical model for todays more cash-strapped corps to follow. Turning them over every couple of years might be better. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-horns Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Price is not the problem with Kanstul horns, it's the fact that they demand payment in full, upfront, whereas Dynasty and Yamaha(and I presume King is similar) offer three year financing and a resale program that offers you the opportunity to refresh your line frequently at very low prices. Dynasty also usually throws in the drums for free, cutting an additional $15-25k off a corps equipment budget.Kanstul puts out an extremely high quality product, but unless and until they get competitive with the financial packages they offer, they will be a very small player in the corps/band market. Whoa! None of the above are banks. Kanstul at least recognizes that and isn't interested in sticking their neck in a noose over non-paying clients. If Yamaha and Dynasty can afford the risk, they are lucky. Wait until US elementary instruemental teachers find out that they can no longer tell kids' parents that Yamaha is made in the USA. That was one of the big selling points in getting mom and dad to pony up more $$ for a decent starter instrument. I've seen and heard the problems with Costco, WalMart and other discount instruments. Like it or not, parents take exception to replacing an instrument after a couple of years - even if they didn't pay much to begin with. The net result is a kid fighting the instrument or just giving up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-horns Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Yes, agreed. My only point is that I have never heard of anybody doing the type of annual overhaul and check out they did. Even in 93', their 9th season on the grass, those horns looked rather new. We are talking a little more then dents removed, braces soldered here. Every fall we came in to discover like-new horns. Over a stretch of say 9 or 10 years they may have exceeded the replacement costs.I am not sure that is the most economical model for todays more cash-strapped corps to follow. Turning them over every couple of years might be better. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised. Not sure here, but there may have been tax advantages to refurbing rather than buying new. (Depreciation vs. maintenance expense?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchromik Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 And Georgia. Manufactuing in the USA is dieing. Slowly, But surly! This World Trade stuff might be great for the Consumer NOW. BUT, in the long run it could/will be Very Hurtful. Why did anyone ever think Drum Corps or Marching Band would be exempt. This is one more peice of straw. Just wonder how many more can be carried. Well thank the Wal Mart effect. Think how much business they contribute to the Chinese economy. Yet they can wrap themselves up in the flag and it is all good. Hmmm. But ultimately we need to look at ourselves. Our rather un-caring and un-educated consumers continue to buy based on price alone. We know the price of everthing, yet the value of nothing. Isn't it curious that some folks like Honda can make a go of it here. Honda employs over 16000 in it's plants here in OH. And huge new plants in AL and IN are currently under construction. A Honda Aircraft manufacturing facility is going to be constructed in NC. Curious they don't feel the advantage of simple cheap labor in Malaysia, India, China, ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburstall Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Well thank the Wal Mart effect. Think how much business they contribute to the Chinese economy. Yet they can wrap themselves up in the flag and it is all good. Hmmm. But ultimately we need to look at ourselves. Our rather un-caring and un-educated consumers continue to buy based on price alone. We know the price of everthing, yet the value of nothing.Isn't it curious that some folks like Honda can make a go of it here. Honda employs over 16000 in it's plants here in OH. And huge new plants in AL and IN are currently under construction. A Honda Aircraft manufacturing facility is going to be constructed in NC. Curious they don't feel the advantage of simple cheap labor in Malaysia, India, China, ect. I have heard that of all the Chinese imports, Wal-Mart alone is responsible for 20% of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nespy Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 Isn't it curious that some folks like Honda can make a go of it here. Honda employs over 16000 in it's plants here in OH. And huge new plants in AL and IN are currently under construction. A Honda Aircraft manufacturing facility is going to be constructed in NC. Curious they don't feel the advantage of simple cheap labor in Malaysia, India, China, ect. I believe it's a matter of labor costs vs. import tax costs. It's the same reason why Yamaha moved final assembly plants to the US to begin with. It just took a while for the labor expertise, labor price difference and competition to make enough sense to move back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martybucs Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I believe it's a matter of labor costs vs. import tax costs. It's the same reason why Yamaha moved final assembly plants to the US to begin with. It just took a while for the labor expertise, labor price difference and competition to make enough sense to move back. Don't forget shipping costs. It's not free to ship stuff from Asia or South/Central America to here. There are great risks to shipping by container oversea. Many cargos are lost. They're insured of course, but do you think the insurance is free? My six year old is learning to read and he actually asked me why everything he has is made in China. I told him that's not true many things are made in other Asian countries. "Don't we make anything here?" he asked. I told him we make a lot of things here, but sense isn't one of them. He got it! That surprised me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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