Professional PA for DCI

[Duramay]

...Line Array Speaker Systems... thats what every corps needs! b**bs okay really not, but it would surely make our listening experience even louder and clearer if there were operators that know how to mix. I have been in corps when there wasn't amplification and when they started adding it. I still haven't quite made up my mind if its good or bad.

I have had the opportunity to learn about mixing and so forth, and would say that bringing in professionals to teach others how to properly use and maintain the equipment is a plus especially if corps are moving into more of an amplification stage. It almost seems that with the huge stadiums and limited PA systems with only a few speakers... it really only helps so much and goes so far... then gets lost with the huge stadium. Another thought that would be interesting is if amplification progresses, would corps try and tap into the stadium's PA, might not sound as good depending on the stadium... but hey it could happen if they wanted more power.

As for microphones... well those are just fun to deal with especially in outdoor weather. There is a fine line of sensitivity depending on the brand and type. If there are still lots of pops, cracks, feedback happening, it takes time to learn how to use them properly to make them sound their best.

Heh... even though its been three years, it would be nice if some of the amplifcation ideas were clearer and what not for the corps. Just hopes of who ever ends up mixing they would take the time to do it right.

[tylerdurden]

I'm an audio engineer, and do both studio work and live sound. I was also hired to come into a corps during the middle of last summer to solve some sound issues.

Sound systems are not easy to operate. It's much easier for lets say, WGI, to manage sound systems over DCI. First off, most gyms are around the same size for a large WGI show. That's easy to fix for a member. You also don't have to worry about as many dynamic variables, since you don't have a hornline.

It makes more sense to have a professional in there to take care of it. Why is it bad to have someone there with properly trained ears and mixing ability? Your average Joe Shmoe won't hear what most engineers can, and don't know what to do when problems occur.

As for the comments about having someone on walkie talkies, why not?

If I'm running sound for a live rock show, I have a good amount of time to test the system and do a sound check. I'm also usually not putting it and tearing it down in a time of a few minutes like a DCI show. So you take a look at the stadium before the show, and make an educated guess on master levels. When you get bodies in the stadium, the air temprature changes, and so on, you get some grey area. So it helps to have another staff member in the stands to tell you fine adjustments.

The other major issue is the stadium power itself. The vast majority of sound system problems last summer came from the stadium itself, having either bad wiring or too much on one breaker. Sound systems take a lot of power, and need consistant and stable power to run right.

Take it from someone with first hand experience. The problems are being worked out, and it is getting better.

Edited May 11, 2007 by tylerdurden

[drumcat]

I'm an audio engineer, and do both studio work and live sound. I was also hired to come into a corps during the middle of last summer to solve some sound issues.

Sound systems are not easy to operate. It's much easier for lets say, WGI, to manage sound systems over DCI. First off, most gyms are around the same size for a large WGI show. That's easy to fix for a member. You also don't have to worry about as many dynamic variables, since you don't have a hornline.

It makes more sense to have a professional in there to take care of it. Why is it bad to have someone there with properly trained ears and mixing ability? Your average Joe Shmoe won't hear what most engineers can, and don't know what to do when problems occur.

As for the comments about having someone on walkie talkies, why not?

If I'm running sound for a live rock show, I have a good amount of time to test the system and do a sound check. I'm also usually not putting it and tearing it down in a time of a few minutes like a DCI show. So you take a look at the stadium before the show, and make an educated guess on master levels. When you get bodies in the stadium, the air temprature changes, and so on, you get some grey area. So it helps to have another staff member in the stands to tell you fine adjustments.

The other major issue is the stadium power itself. The vast majority of sound system problems last summer came from the stadium itself, having either bad wiring or too much on one breaker. Sound systems take a lot of power, and need consistant and stable power to run right.

Take it from someone with first hand experience. The problems are being worked out, and it is getting better.

Tyler, love ya man, but your argument is based on the nothing imperical about getting better. If anything, I can show you a downturn statistically. It's not a rock concert - it's competitive art. Maybe it's time for the corps to be responsible for the power as well. Constant and stable power isn't something offered by stadiums, ever, unless they are TV friendly stadiums. Most DCI stadium venues over the season are simply getting a school janitor to run two extension cords. We both know that's a recipe for problems.

[karl E. Hungus]

What are your thoughts on the rule that went into place in 2006 allowing staff members to run the soundboard during performances? I thought that was suppose to end all of these balance issues. I even saw a corps, which I will not name, last season that had someone up near the press box talking to the person running the soundboard through a walkie-talkie. Is this what we've come to? Next I guess we will have all the corps members on Bluetooth Nextel phones....."Hey trumpet soloist....PLAY LOUDER and MORE IN TUNE!!!!!!" <**>

well they do it in every other sport or form of competition pretty much.

I am vehemently opposed to the sound board rule as well for the same reasons and pro PA folks - control of the performance has been taken out of the members hands. Staff members cannot give direction, guidance, etc. to members on the filed, yet the sound board operator can control the balance and blend of the pit. How is this different from the brass staff standing on the front sideline working the brass line to fix balance issues? I don't see it as different at all, yet that would result in a penalty for the corps, and sound board ops are permitted. This makes no sense whatsoever.

With the increased size of corps to 150 next year, if sound boards remain, they should be operated by members. But better yet, do away with the sound boards, and the amps.

why not? it makes perfect sense, like i said, everybody else does it. its the job of the player to play it right, the job of the staff to make them play it right. if were competing here for money and clout in front on thousands of viewers i see no problem with every corps member wearing an earpeice wired to the staff. thats over the top but it would be sweet.

Ummm..... I'm going to inform you that you're in a tiny minority... but you knew that. ;)

maybe on lame DCP. but out in, um... the real world, everybody else has figured it out already. thats how these rules got passed in the first place. and why there not getting changed.

[LaSqueegee]

maybe on lame DCP. but out in, um... the real world, everybody else has figured it out already. thats how these rules got passed in the first place. and why there not getting changed.

You must of skipped over me at all the shows I was at last year while you were polling everyone in the crowd!!!

[Iplaytimpani]

So do you feel that DCP is an accurate representation of the overall DCI crowd? Not attacking, honest question.

[LaSqueegee]

So do you feel that DCP is an accurate representation of the overall DCI crowd? Not attacking, honest question.

First of all it should be pointed out that no one on either side of any of these issues has any proof whether DCP represents what fans sitting in the stands in 2006 or 2007 think. I'm an accountant and business person......so by nature I want proof when I hear statements like, "tiny DCP doesn't mean anything" or "DCP is just old folks complaining." Heck, I'm 28....please don't tell me I'm old.

What I think you have to do is first look at DCP. This site was started back in 2002 and has grown since, yet the polls on these tough issues never change? Now there are somewhere around 17,000 registered members here on DCP. Are all of them active? Of course not. But I do know that DCP has all types of people posting: fans, staff members, directors, former marchers, current marchers, future marchers, parents of marchers, etc.

I also find it interesting that we just had a classic countdown poll done on DCI.org....and the results pretty much fall in line with what people think around here. So are we to say that the poll on DCI.org now means nothing? Where do we draw the line?

I, on average, attend about 15 shows each summer....a majority of which are major DCI shows. I find it interesting that the same comments I here in the stands are the same mix of comments I see posted on here. Does that prove anything? No....but if someone has the proof I'd like to see it!!! :)

[karl E. Hungus]

First of all it should be pointed out that no one on either side of any of these issues has any proof whether DCP represents what fans sitting in the stands in 2006 or 2007 think.

thats not the point, it deosnt matter what the fans think, it never matters, in any sport. you just think it does, thats good management by a team or organization. eventually all the naysayers will just end up dealing with it or leaving and making room for more enthusiastic fans.

if fans had control of the NBA, NHL, NFL, etc, theres no way they could have reached the level they are. fans dont know anything. they just know what they like and they like what they know. ask around enough and i guarantee youll find some rickety old guy who still thinks pro football players should be playing in leather helmets.

when i said "the rest of the world" i should have clarified, i meant show designers, corps directors, sponsors, etc. pretty much all the people that are involved directly with drucorps in general, including current marching members in competing junior corps. those people would be considered the experts and i think the experts have it pretty much figured out.

Edited May 11, 2007 by karl E. Hungus

[drumcat]

maybe on lame DCP. but out in, um... the real world, everybody else has figured it out already. thats how these rules got passed in the first place. and why there not getting changed.

Wow - how totally out of context. He was saying that every show from 2004 forward never once had an overbalanced pit. For F sakes. Saying that BK 2004 and SCV 2006 weren't too loud does put him in a minority. This had nothing to do with amps as legal. ####. That was lame. <**> <**> <**>

[drumcat]

thats not the point, it deosnt matter what the fans think, it never matters, in any sport.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Rule changes are almost always made to improve the viewers' experiences. NHL rule changes allowing more offense weren't made because the league, loaded with left-wing-lock smothering defenses thought it improved their teams' chances. They did it for the fans. The NBA doesn't allow handchecking, put in the charge arc, and hell, put in the 24 second clock to improve offense. The NFL used to allow clotheslines, pummeling quarterbacks on interceptions, and bumping receivers on the line. All of those are gone. Baseball added the DH, to many-a-chagrin to improve offense, and almost 40 years later, it still seems odd.

These are but a tiny sampling of how sports have tried to improve their game for fans, based on fan feedback.