Cornet instead of Trumpet? Flugel instead of Mellophone?

[davidp]

I have wondered for a while what drum corps would sound like if either cornets were used instead of trumpets, or somebody came up with a Bb trumpet with the same characteristics as a soprano bugle (or, just a 3-valve, Bb sop). One reason I'm asking is some of the bugles I've seen over the years have looked sort of like cornets.

Also, what would happen if you used flugelhorns instead of mellophones? That way, you'd have an all-Bb hornline. I seem to recall that the Blue Devils used flugels instead of french horns one year (at least), and in the clip I saw, they sounded the same. Thoughts, comments, or snide remarks (lol)?

Edited June 21, 2011 by davidp

[hrnguy500]

Well, if they started using cornets the groups would start sounding like European Brass Bands.....which isn't all that bad of a sound. Cornets are made differently than trumpets so their timbre is very different. Not sure if caption heads would want to deal with them in the group.

Flugels to replace mellos? No way. I think the the corps would sound weird. However, if that is the sound they want then that would be very unique and an advantage over others. Ex. "I really like Corps X's sound because of the flugel line". I think that is why the Crossmen marched with them for so long. Mellos are pretty essential to a corps. They hold the middle ground and often add sizzle to the group.

[Dave]

Cornets are conical instruments, but G sopranos are cylindrical, so there would definitely be a timbre change there.

[davidp]

Cornets are conical instruments, but G sopranos are cylindrical, so there would definitely be a timbre change there.

Gotcha; I thought sops were conical as well. I guess sopranos have always been more like trumpets then?

Thanks.

Edited June 24, 2011 by davidp

[Dave]

Their tubes have always been wrapped a lot like cornets, which I think leads a lot of people to think they're cylindrical, plus they have a big throat and less of a flare than most trumpets which lends to the appearance. G sopranos actually have more cylindrical tubing than trumpets do, since they're pitched lower.

[John Schmitt]

or somebody came up with a Bb trumpet with the same characteristics as a soprano bugle

The Kanstul Coliseum model was kind of an attempt at that. The bell flare is similar to a soprano, to the point where harmon mutes bounce right off. In the version the Bluecoats purchased in 2002 the mouthpiece receiver was from a powerbore soprano. .470 bore, very open horn. Pedal C is a legitimate note on these things.

The prototype had "KSB103" stamped on it incidentally. Kanstul Soprano Bugle 103. The powerbore G sop was KSB102.

[Callawyn]

"Cornets are conical"

I've been advocating Cornets rather than Trumpets for years. I think the whole Bb vs G argument is really about the fact that there are issues with using Trumpets rather than Sopranos (brighter sound, sops can play with more volume before losing quality and the directional aspect of the Trumpets' sound projection - sops' sound tends to spread out while trumpets' is like a laser beam). IMO, Cornets would help with all of these issues, and particularly the directional aspect due to the conical bore. There don't seem to be similar issues with mellos/baris/tubas - the switch to Bb for these instruments doesn't seem to have any drawbacks.

Flugels vs Mellos.

The Mello sound is very distinct, it carries through the trumpets without getting lost. Flugels tend to get buried under the trumpets. I like the flugel sound, but when your trumpets are playing its difficult to hear them. The Crossmen are marching both flugels and mellos this year (my nephew is playing one), they've taken this problem into account in both the arrangements and the show design (the flugels are right up front for most of the show). So, you can use them successfully, but you have to be smart about it.

A variety of corps used to march both mellos and french horns (27th Lancers did when I was there), both of which have very distinct sounds that carry well. The problems there were tuning and the difficulty of marching and playing on a French Horn mouthpiece. I can't remember the last time I saw a marching French Horn in drum corps (though, oddly, there's no shortage of mellophone players that use French Horn mouthpieces with an adaptor - makes sense for people that are French Horn mouthpieces, but it has to change your sound which is an issue if most of the line are using mello mouthpieces).

[randomnoise]

I am playing on a Cornet in Renegades this year in order to match the sound of a great Soprano player - Cornet was the closest I could come to his sweet sound.

And I don't play Sop.

When I marched in BD (and Dinosaurs walked the Earth), we used Flugels instead of Mellos at times for a different sound. IMO, drum corps play it way to safe from an orchestration standpoint. Mix it up, I say!

Edited August 2, 2011 by randomnoise

[mendy328]

Interesting topic. I marched Phantom '81-'83, playing flugel the first year (Spartacus), then switching to horn after that. PR did away with the flugels and I was actually happier on horn. I felt like I could produce a sound that was fuller, louder and just sounded better - in my opinion. I think 'randomnoise' is spot on...whatever the corps is looking for that year might affect the instrumentation. I just wish we heard more the the drums and 'bugles' these days instead of artificial music...but that's another thread. ;)

[lastknight]

Cornets are conical instruments, but G sopranos are cylindrical, so there would definitely be a timbre change there.

I think I have to differ here. G sops (at least in the V/R and 2 valve days) were very much conical.