FreelancerAlumni Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 The RATE of taper is decreasing, from .030/inch at one end to .05/inch at the other. I must apologize, I missed the "RATE" of taper. Yes, the rate decreases as the tube gets longer. A different horn brand may be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreelancerAlumni Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Just got an e-mail from Charles H at Kanstul. Seems I have a correction to make. Kanstul no longer makes there tube from flat sheet. Bells still are, and they still draw the tube in order to get the desired shape. Also: I just measured the tuning slide on my sop. Bore is 0.470, tube part that slides in is 0.492 but the rest of the tube is 0.505 Still, a fairly thin wall tubing in the 26 to 25 ga range when you account for the thickness of the silver plating (usual plating is from 0.00002 to 0.02, depending on application). This is a fun discussion ! I'm having a good time, hope you all are too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidp Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Wow! I just came back to this thread after a while. Very educational!! Now for another question. What would happen if you substituted F marching frenchies (the kind that Kanstul, DEG, Blessing, and others make) for mellophones? Although I have played horn off and on for a little over 30 years, I was never privy to the nuts and bolts of voicing. I know there is a difference between the two, besides the obvious, but I don't what it is. Sorry to keep pounding you guys with obscure questions, but you all know this stuff, and I don't, lol. Thanks for accommodating me; someday, if my mini-corps ever gets off the ground, we may have a very unique sound. It may not be great, but it would still be unique . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidp Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 This is a fun discussion ! I'm having a good time, hope you all are too... Yes I am; I'm learning a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Yes and no. I do not know the thickness of the sheet metal that the lead-pipe is made of. what I did do was measure the end of my mouthpiece (I/D) since they are of industry standard, the will match up to very close tolerance. The end was measured at the end of the removed tuning slide (measurement was the tuning slide). So, taking measurements the length of the I/D of the lead-pipe cane be done, but is a very laborious and time consuming. So, I took measurements of the O/D since the sheet metal is of a (fairly) continuous thickness (this does change somewhat during the drawing process) measuring the O/D can give you a fairly accurate idea of the taper and its rate. So here it is at fairly close to each inch of the lead-pipe. 0.400 (right at the end of the receiver. Lead-pipe is approx 1.5" inside of receiver) 0.410 0.440 0.470 0.490 0.485 (starting bend) 0.480 0.480 0.485 0.490 (end of bend) 0.495 0.500 0.507 0.510 (this is the point where the lead-pipe enters the tuning slide bung which covers about 2" of the end of the lead-pipe) These measurements were taken off of my Kanstul made Custom Class "G" Soprano Bugle. This horn started life as a standard Soprano (ser #919). Last December I had Zig and his crew install a Power-Bore Bell, but leave the standard lead-pipe. The reason I left the standard lead-pipe is because the Power-Bore reciever would not fit my mouthpiece. A little background information may be helpful here. My day job (actually grave shift) is a Master Fabricator/Maintainer of glass handling robotics. I am also a Master Machinist and metals fabricator. My tools of the trade all have a tolerance within the industry standard of 0.001". I often machine and measure precision fitted parts to a half millionth of an inch tolerance. Interesting. This shoots in the foot some here that have been preaching Bb trumpets and G bugles were the same. This DEFINITELY points to that not being the case at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreelancerAlumni Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Interesting. This shoots in the foot some here that have been preaching Bb trumpets and G bugles were the same. This DEFINITELY points to that not being the case at all. Exactly !!! But still depends on the brand of the horn. We have some ( older ) Dynasty ( three valve ) horns who's construction is MUCH more like there Trumpet Brethren. Hence there inherent tuning/sound production problems ( at least in our experience ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothOperator Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 The American cornet might as well be a trumpet, and the European cornet isn't at all like the American cornet. European cornet's are built like miniature euphonium. As for the flugelhorn mellophone debate, isn't a flugel horn essentially the same as a soprano with a diffferent taper? Or are there some differences in the drum core flugel that make them more similar to a mellophone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreelancerAlumni Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 The American cornet might as well be a trumpet, and the European cornet isn't at all like the American cornet. European cornet's are built like miniature euphonium. As for the flugelhorn mellophone debate, isn't a flugel horn essentially the same as a soprano with a diffferent taper? Or are there some differences in the drum core flugel that make them more similar to a mellophone? Two completely different instruments with completely different sounds. Back in the day our Middle Horn Section consisted of; Mellophones, Flugelhorns and French Horns. They all had different parts and when combined, MAN what a middle sound it produced !!! Very Orchestral in sound. Look at how many different "voices" an orchestra has. Some sound very familiar, but different enough to cover the entire spectrum of sound possibilities. Using different horns is no different. If you restrict your line to a "one-or-the-other" type of thinking, then your sound out front will not be as full, colorful or interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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