Hrothgar15

Or guard members dressed in ridiculous outfits from a certain "drum corps" (in the loosest sense of the word).

Err, no...Phantom Regiment's show is an exciting, entertaining, emotional, amazing DRUM CORPS show with no cheesy, distracting, insulting, non-musical amplified vocal elements. And the Cadets' show, well, isn't.

Let me put it this way. Remember when somone in the audience DRESSED UP as a pirate in the 1997 show? You know a show can't get any better when audience members dress up like characters in your show. Unfortunately, this year's show is not as much of a quality product as the 1997 show by any stretch of the imagination, and there will be no "dressing up" of any kind this year. Can I see someone dressing up as Marlon Brando for the Blue Devils' show? Of course, because the show is so well-written, in your face, and entertaining that the audience appeal is through the roof. Audiences know when they see a quality product and respond accordingly.

Hmmm...all of these things seem to have something in common, but I can't quite put my finger on it... Wait a minute... Oh yeah! THEY DON'T INVOLVE TALKING.

Are you kidding? 1999's show would not place well? Let's say the Madison Scouts had the same exact skill level they did in 1999 and performed their 1999 show for the first time in 2006. They would still place 6th, if not higher (probably around 4th or so), because they would have a better show design than everyone else. Seeing as they will place 10th, 11th, 12th, or won't even make finals this year, which would you prefer? That show was perfect from start to finish. The way competition works is simple--judges reward the entertainment factor of shows not just through the GE caption but also indirectly: the more entertaining your show is, the better the audience reacts, the "bigger" the show seems, and the better the kids perform it because they know they have something great. I don't want the Madison scouts to recreate their shows from 10 years ago. I want them to play well-written, entertaining, in-your-face music like they used to. Sorry to say, the musical integrity and maturity of the '95 through '99 programs is on a completely different level than their 2006 program. I want them to start performing on that level again. Like it or not, the audience reaction to a show is directly proportional to how good a show is. Because the audience reaction is nowhere near as positive to the 2006 show as it was to the shows of the '90s, we know for a fact that the Madison Scouts are performing worse shows now than they used to. It's as simple as that.

I wouldn't be upset if..... Blue Devils Santa Clara Vanguard Cavaliers Phantom Regiment or Bluecoats ....won DCI Finals in Madison

Yes, but narration, due to the fact that amps are necessary for it, is two years old. I fail to see how spoken word can be a musical element. Examples? Did you even read what I wrote? Allowing narration of a show is the only major change to drum corps in the past 50 years that has actually added something new. Frankly, amplification is the only major change to the activity since the foundation of DCI. How could adding a third valve be anywhere near the scope of adding minutes of spoken lines, choral elements, and rock-and-roll singing, all amped? Asymmetrical drill...minor change. Dancing guards? Minor change as well. Changes that can also be ignored in audio recordings of the show. What change to drum corps from 1972 onwards was as big as or even near in scope as the adding of amplified vocals?

With all of this Cadets/amplification banter, I forgot to CHECK TONIGHT'S SCORES. What a GREAT score for Phantom Regiment. I'm sure the crowd must have gone wild at the announcement of Cadets in 3rd... With a 4th, possibly 5th (or even 6th) place finish for the Cadets in Madison, do you think George Hopkins will pull the plug, literally, on the amplified nonsense? Let's hope so. Great job Phantom! Was anyone at the show that would like to describe the performance? I saw them at Powder Springs and didn't think drum corps could get any better than that...but I guess it has!

Yes, of course it's part of the show. But how does that prevent people from finding it distracting? There could be people who find loud hits, dancing guards, props, amped pits, etc. to be distracting in there opinion, but obviously they are part of the show. The first time I saw a live drum corps show was a little over a year ago. I've had to enjoy a hundred plus shows through the only way I could--through MP3s and DVDs. What about the kids born in 2003 who want to enjoy the Cadets 2006 production in 2021? The allowal for narration of shows is different than any other change over the course of DCI history and is by far the most major for the following reasons: it incorporates non-musical elements into the audio portions of a show, and adds something completely new (no shows before 2004 were ever narrated during the show) instead of improving on an already introduced concept (asymmetrical drill, additional valve, dancing guard, etc.). Therefore, the same argument can NOT be held for any of these minor changes.

Just curious, MikeD...what do you have to say about this? What if some people find amped vocals distracting? OK, I for one know that thousands of people find amped vocals distracting. Before amps were allowed, there were no distractions. (Dancing guards and props, maybe, but these disctractions can be avoided on the audio portion. Not so with amped vocals. A great deal of drum corps is enjoyed daily through CDs and MP3s.) Now there are distractions. Sure, thousands of fans may enjoy shows more now with amped vocals, but thousands of fan are enjoying shows A LOT less, having them ruined for them. (This cannot be denied. I am the hugest Cadets fan in the world--I think all of their productions 1983 to 2003 are complete masterpieces in every sense of the word, some of my favoirte drum corps shows ever. I will not be watching their show at Finals this year and will be instead eating a hot dog, because I have indeed seen their show and quite frankly [no pun intended], I find eating hot dogs to be more enjoyable than the experience I had watching their show, and that will be a better use of my time and money.) But the fact is, the marginal enjoyment added by amps for some fans is nothing compared to the ability of amped vocals to ruin drum corps for others. Therefore, not including amped vocals is exponentially more beneficial to the audience as a whole than including them. Make sense?

Oh God...I see why it's a bad idea to expose a horny teenager to an...English horn. Oh for the love of humanity...

Interesting way to see how the marching arts are viewed by the popular culture. Horribly, in my opinion. There's a sort of I & E type thing going on now...what a misrepresentation of the marching arts. TBS right now. Join in the cringes.

Hint: Madison will place much lower with their "championship-pursuing" show this year than they did with any of their spectacular, entertaining, audience-friendly shows of the '90s. Hmmmm...

Welcome to my world. By the way, your 1988 and 1989 shows are spectacular. 1989 could be the most underrated show in DCI history. It's almost NEVER mentioned. Make His Praise Glorious...there' just nothing like it. What a chart. And you can't go wrong with Slaughter. You guys tried something new in '89 with gospel music--certainly not Latin or jazz by any definition of the words. But you brought back a Madison classic to assure that you were still THE MADISON SCOUTS. Oh, and Three Blind Mice. That was cool too.

I love how on DCP there are clearly two sides...the people who make sense and the people who don't, and this man is clearly part of the former.

No...if he doesn't like vocals in drum corps, if HIS PERSONAL TASTES state that vocals ruin a show, he's not going to enjoy it any more in person than he will from a video. The fact that he wants a program made purely marching and music, and this is not one, will not change upon seeing it live.

Works fine on my Mac with Safari...also tried it on Windows with IE and Firefox, works perfectly fine. Weird...

I'm impressed. Very detailed for your first post ever on DCP.

You mean to tell me if they had saved their 1999 show for 2006 and performed it at the exact same skill level, they wouldn't make finals? Please. What has "changed" so much about drum corps that a show with amazing music and drill can't make finals? That's just a cop-out for the fact that the Madison Scouts this year do not have a well-written musical program.

I can. Their musical program is an unmelodic, non-flowing, mish-mash of hits and chords, compared to their perfectly written musical books of the '90s. There's no emotional involvement, no screaming sop solos to get the crowd on their feet, no 30-second long chords, no rotating company front, no jammin' percussion feature... Just listen to the opener from 1996. Everything is put perfectly into place: Opening mellophone solo- This is the main theme from Arturo Sandoval's "A Mis Abuelos" and makes perfect musical sense, finely crafted over the course of months (unlike some original music being performed that is just slapped down onto the computer). Just the first two notes, an octave apart, immediately draw the listener in. The solo is sweet and flowing, phrased perfectly. Full ensemble hit- The crowd hears that classic Madison sound for the first time, a sound only drum corps can create. It's that characteristic full drum corps chord, one that serves as a reason why people love this activity. Soprano solo- Doesn't get any better than this. It's high, fast, loud, and...BALLSY. That solo IS the Madison Scouts. Percusion interlude as company front rotates- Another Madison tradition...after the soprano solo you know the corps is building up for something big. Accelerando adds to the excitement. Full corps return- Last thing they play before taking off again. Brash, loud, jazzy, leads you right into the next section. Main theme- Sopranos have the melody, low brass has the rythmic counter parts. Everything is built on itself to create one cohesive sound and rythm. Note that this is a complete, developed, non-repeating melody that lasts eleven seconds (while many so-called "melodies" we here today last three or four). Soprano solo- Next part of the main theme, effectively played on soprano. The structure of this part is similar to the last, but higher. There's just nothing better thana soprano filling the stadium with sound, and this is exactly the purpose that this part serves. Main theme again- Gives the audience the taste of the now-familiar melody, with rythmic variations. Transition into next theme- First percussion, than brass enters with loud chordal stabs, followed by a few licks leading into some chords to finish it off. Second theme- The pit first introduces this eleven-second long theme, which is then mirrored by the brass. When the brass plays it, the mellophones start the beginning of the phrase and are answered with fat, loud, stabs of sound from the rest of the corps. This happens twice, and leads into the mellophone lead of the second part of this melody. Variations on second theme- The sopranos mostly take this one, with fast licks into two quarter-note stacatto hits. The last part of this theme repeats and repeats until a final soprano call, which leads into a huge, spectacular chordal climax from the whole corps. A soprano hangs over on a high note for effect. Great audience moment. Short percussion transition- Used to allow room for audience clapping while providing a short transition Third theme (from second half of "A Mis Abuelos")- First, melody is traded between mellos and sopranos. Many melodic excerpts are transposed together in this section (including a prominent one from Malagueña). Ascending line of groupings of three eighth notes played by the sopranos to lead into the finishing fast licks of the section. Short drum break- Just a little touch, provides a nice transtion to the ending statement with some loud percussive rhythms. Ending- High voices hold a chord while the low brass plays the third theme for the last time. Leads into a rythmic ending from the whole corps (finishes it off, all stacatto) See? That is good music. Melodic, chordal...everything serves a purpose. Everything flows. Do an analysis of their 2006 opener and you won't go as in depth...you can't, because there is no depth. This has nothing to do with the Madison "identity" or anything, just that the quality of music performed exponentially worse than what used to be performed, hence the lower quality of the product.

It doesn't matter how "tasteful" it is or how much it "adds" to the show. Unfortunately, there will always be thousands of drum corps fans who will not be able to enjoy a show with narration because it detracts from the maturity and integrity of the program, provides an unnecessary distraction, is adding something to a show that makes it WORSE (as in, effort is put forth by the members to DECREASE the quality of the product), and is incorporating foreign elements into a drum corps show. Above all, thousands of fans would prefer to hear eleven-and-a-half minutes of music, not talking, as talking is not musical and is changing "marching and music" to "marching, music, and talking." So what about the people that want to see marching and music, but no talking? These people are left in the dust. Pre-amplification, no one was left in the dust. Allowing for amplification allowed for much more enjoyment of shows by a marginally small fraction of DCI fans, but allowed for much, much LESS enjoyment of shows by an exponentially larger amount. No, DCI is not just about the fans but about the performers as well, but how much more satisfaction are the performers getting now that they can perform shows using amplification? Little to none. Therein lies the problem. DCI went from being a win-win situation to a win-lose situation, and that's never good.

Completely wrong. Corps can't perform familiar, accessible, in-your-face, WELL-WRITTEN music? When Madison did this in 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999...they placed higher than they will this year with this dead, incoherent mish-mash of hits and chords.

Please, I'm one of the biggest Cadets fans on this board, and I think this show is terrible. No one ever has biases against corps, just against shows. And when a show is bad, it's perfectly fine to be biased against it.