BigW

Egads, Andy- York's a straight shot 20-25 miles South of Harrisburg on I-83 (depending on whnat part of Harrisburg you'd run from. Easy drive. Watch the construction zone South of Harrisburg at the Turnpike interchage, though. Just take your half in the middle through the cattle chutes. I tend to. I don;t need NASCAR marks on my wagon. If you have the time- I really recommend Culhane's if you like steak. http://www.culhanessteakseafood.com/contactus.html ... it's South of Harrisburg and on the way to York. It's served with a sizzle and I have no problems packing one down. York Suburban High School is very close to I-83. From the looks of it, coming from the north, you'd get off at Exit 18, from the South, Exit 16. Not far from either exit. The HS adress address is 1800 Hollywood Drive, York, PA according to MapQuest. I'd guess you'd program that into your GPS, those who have those sort of things.

Someone (Jeff) mentioned Charlie Poole, A MUST listen: Go to YouTube, Search "This Could be Hellacious". 1992 late season Crossmen Charlie Poole tape. It's in 2 parts. I can almost see what Charlie sees and feel what he feels, honest, exacting, thoughtful, etc. Some Hornline issues where it's cringeworthy, but dear God, what a percussion run. I'm not a percussionist, but Part 2, 2 minutes 10 to 14, dear God, that battery just plays it's smokin' ### off and tells you how good they are. Work calls. Really, Ben, MUST, MUST listen. Even a guy like me learned a lot from this and enjoyed it and it's a great tape if you forgive the horn indiscretions at times.

I see Bobby now and again. I got to know him better working with him, and after nearly having to save him from a well-deserved (Matter of opinion there but let me put it this way, I was well prepared) death from a mutual friend. That's something I'll tell you and the guys about over a beer or dinner, or both. Someone remind me next alumni practice, I'll tell the story. He's judging Cavalcade last I knew now, doing Sky alumni, his son's doing well, good kid, Bobby's a Grandfather, etc. I usually run into him at Scranton, or a CoB show if I go to one to see a friend's son compete. I still remember that tape he did around 80 or 81 when we did the Grand Prix in the Meadowlands. He's going on, doing his thing during the percussion feature, then you suddenly hear *thunk*, then DZZZ DZZZ DZZZ GAKDAGAK GAAKGAK-GA-GAKGAK DUGGA-DUGGA-GAK! for about 45 seconds, then *Fluff-fluff hisss* "I dropped the tape".... From what you guys told us, he dropped it right under the snares- like you needed to tell us this when you played it for Bus 1 after the show. We all laughed pretty hard....

Yes, and still classic. Speaking of "Free", the thing I think of now is the infamous Doyle Gammill judge's tape of Carlsbad HS playing that as part of their show. Ben, if you haven't heard that tape, worth listening to. The dude's evidently some big shot in the Texas bandmasrter's association, but he sounds like he smoked about three Tommy Chong fat blunts before he went into the judge's box and drank half a bottle of Jack neat out of the bottle. Just do a google for "world's worst judge" or "Doyle Gammill" and I think you'll find the tape. What frustrates me when I listen to it is he's missing what I think the one big issue that the band has that stares me in the face when I listen to the tape- they're all right, but-- he's missing one IMHO serious thing....

Yeah did that one practice at LD with him on a ride cymbal and some Cuban thoughts in my head. It worked. I have more groove then people sometimes think. I don't look groovy but I can do it. :) T-Schell really liked that drum to drum thing- usually did it at the end of indoor shows, it did get the crowd worked up, was entertaining, but sometimes, if it wasn't right, it was a borderline train wreck if everyone wasn't careful! :) That's like the Rocky Point solo Dan wrote for Bush a few seasons back- I need to sit with Buzz or Ream with an original recording of the piece and play the one Tuba feature, which Dan wrote into the Bass Drums before their horns cut in on e park and bark, and it was a REALLY nice and jammin' effect, and for ME to say that-- that's serious-- Supposedly all that had been used before- has to be more than coincidence with that Bass lick and the segue into the horns. It could be that bass part was changed at that point and the rest was Westshore- I don't know. They would know. Anyhow, I have a bill to pay. Blech! I'm thinking about Clifton, I still remember a bit about it- believe me. Good memories of the buzz after the show, Larry, and Frank Magel. And the feelings I had. All good stuff.

I think now with digital storage, as long as people back up stuff and such, it'll be easier to archive documents like that. I know a lot of the drill guys are happy they can do that, especially with the way drill is written now with 2-4 count transitions even written out to clarify the moves...

Jeff- you're right about that 1977 video of Westshore- definitely the Glenn Miller medley from '77. Fun wo watch, too. Jim, speaking of piston slide-- there's a good Frank Dorrite story he told us BITD about when he was playing one of those in the old days and evidently, some of the pitches were sharp as tacks so you really had to gank the slide out. One of the vets told him "Joo know how to play dat note? Hit yourself in da face!" I hope Frank sees this post and can corroborate. I saw Danny Fitz play a piston slide French horn at DCA I and I in I thnk 1992 or 1993. Danny won with the blasted thing, and was FANTASTIC. You'd have never known he was playing one of those unless you watched him. Superb display, and very memorable. And yeah, a lot of guys used some kind of x and o system or + and 0 system to mark fingerings as well. I have no clue which was which, I never used it, always marked 1 and 2 when needed. I think Jim's one piece for G-D bugle is notated that way alon with the actual notes. When I think of Choclatiers, I think of Teddy Arndt at Serenade with that set of trips and my old friend Andy Grider. Hey, Boom- you know Bob Wolfe was ex-Choclatiers? Talked to him about it. Man-- knowing some of the cast of characters like T-Schell, Ben, Andy and Bob, and Teddy, Louie, Happy Birthday JJ, and Dickie, Dear God, that corps must have been even more like a Pirate ship of scurvy cut-throats than we were in that era!!!!!! The Bucs were more like the Errol Flynn/Sea Hawk, clean cut types, at least in public. I'm sure I could get good stories out ofbender and some of the others I know if I asked.

I'll see what I have in my archives at my parents.... no promises, not sure what and where a lot of stuff actually is!

Bruce Fausy, a real blast from the past- haven't seen him in years! Last I knew, lived in the Sunbury area and a friend who was a low brass player at Shik ran a dog grooming shop that took care of his dogs. I'm unsure what happened to him, I'd have thunk that I'd have ran into him in one way or another at a show somewhere after 1990ish.... Didn't he march Bucs for a bit in the late 70's, Ben!!?!?!?

From what I saw on the Lancers' website about a week ago, everyone was on that list on the link except for the USNA and Reilly. Unsure of anything's changed one way or another.

I was just happy to be there and playing- and yeah- Jeff, for not being together as a crew, you guys on Bass did a really fine job- I think we'll be solid for the show. :)

To Jeff and Ben, YES. That being said, there was some serious ToB activity BITD/late 70's in Chapter 4, mainly because that area was a bit remote from the CoB shows. Williamsport, Shamokin, Shik, Lock Haven, Bald Eagle-Nittany (Perhaps THE best small band in the US in the late 70's), Crestwood (I think Chapter 4 at that time still included NEPA), and Lewistown were all pretty active in ToB and all of them were at worst reasonably successful. Lewistown got more involved with ToB as time went on in the late 70's, I think because we had more success, the shows were closer, and we were seeing Jim Prime, Sr. a lot on panels, which was a big help to us as kids and also trying to figure out how to get better. Ralph Fair was also very helpful to the Lewistown program in terms of trying to get the visual program competitive and out of the visual scoring gutter. Musically, we were quite respectable, no embarassment there. You'd see the Harrisburg bands mainly in CoB at that time, with some occassional crossovers. Heck, we even went to some PennFed (what is now PIMBA) BITD as did even CV when a show was somewhat close, and they were back them in the Johsntown area- not too horrible a trip from Central PA. The main point is- a goodly number of the Westshore kids were competing a lot (5-7 contests) in the fall, and learning from good judges who then were also judging DCA as well. We weren't 100% ignorant when we came to the corps, which was a real advantage for us, I think. I don't think every corps in the NE quite had that going for them in that time frame (Reading excepted- they had WCU as a feeder more or less), BUT-- the other corps had long term vets and older, hopefully more mature people who learned from the school of hard knocks how to win. Wyoming Area was ToB in the mid-80's. This I know, I did drill design for them hmm, around.... 1984/5!?!?!? And THAT, is another rather interesting story.... By the Mid-80's, things were getting wierd with Cavalcade. I won't publicly name names- but when one of the NEPA powerhouses staff members who was a friend and classmate of mine comes to me at WCU and tells me they scored a 9.2 out of 8 in a subcaption at a big Cavalcade contest in the Philly area -- no typo there, yeah, a 9.2 out of 8. I won't name publically who goofed, we got along with him well at Westshore in period (I think he partied after shows with us at least once and was a GREAT partier) and I like the guy very much personally. Ben and crew- I'll name names when we finally can get together some time over dinner....

Jim, I figured you had one- but I'm good. My left middle finger kinda lies there right now instead of curling around the valve casings. Thankfully not to the point that anyone thinks I'm flipping them off while I play. Here's the story about Frank Dorrite when he was working the horn line at CV one winter. In the middle of the practice, he looks up, stops, and saus, "Hey- you guys can all read music, can't yah?" I nod my head, most people are bobbleheading yes, and Terry and Bruce Bolich are kinda like, "Ummmm!?!?!?", and Mike looks over at Terry, the other contras smack Bruce, "Yeah, you can read music, you goofs!" Terry says, "Well, not like, right away...." Frank laughs and then said, "No I don't mean, can you sight-read well. That's something different. You know about notes, pitches, fingerings, rhythms and that kind of thing, right?" They answer,"Well, yeah!" And of course, everyone goes Three Stooges on Bolich and Terry while Frank laughs. Frank then says, "You guys are the first horn line I've taught where everyone can read music." We look around, very confused. I look over at Frank, and say very seriously and innocently, "Doesn't everyone!?" Frank smiles, shakes his head, and says, "No. No, they don't." I think it dawned on not only me, but all of us that we actually had a weapon we could use to take on the big names! I know that I took it for granted that everyone in a horn line, especially at the DCA high-end could all read music! I know younger people would be aghast, but that was the way it was in many instances, even in the early 80's. Maybe we had a lot of kids, but most of us had been at least trained in what was effectively a minor-league system in Central PA and been competing in ToB and Cavalcade- or both- and had half an idea of competing before we got to Westshore. We also came from good school music programs and were fairly well educated about the basics. Bands like Middletown- Lewistown, CV, East Pennsboro, Carlisle, Camp Hill, Shikellamy, Lebanon, Northern Lebanon, Williamsport, I can go on here- maybe not all the greatest or legendary like a couple on that list, but we were well educated in music and the fundamentals of musicianship before we came to Westshore, and it dawned on us we might have an advantage against some of these guys were were up against, and in some ways, we could hold our own with them. I'm certain Dave already knew this, and I think it dawned on Frank what he had in front of him, screwy, young, but not stupid/musically ignorant, and how he could take advantage of what we were good at and use it.....

Hey! Yeah, when band season hit and I ended up in West-by-God-Virgina all fall driving 250 miles one way- I kinda have to leave the Drum Corps Planet. Luckily I did get Aaron Lichtenwalner to do one run with me which was a godsend. Doing that alone, especially at night, even when you're a night person can be tough. Deer, foxes, twisty roads, trying to figure out how much gas you got and how far it will get yah- all crazy. I know like every goofy place to fuel up out there. Little Sandy's Truck stop makes a good buckwheat pancake. Some groups are learning, working hard, getting better. Some.... it will take time. It's like a time capsule out there once in awhile. Stuff you haven't heard in literally decades like Larry Kerchner's "My Favorite Things" get heard- albeit the fire hose got taken to it, which irked me. Boom played that I think one year at LHS and THEY could play the 4 against three for God's sake as well as the 10-8/mixed meter stuff. Anyhow, I hope Chris is starting to feel better, Jeff, and again, congratulations. Jim, come and say Hi! I almost had to beg an Ultratone off you or someone, I ended up getting my left middle finger slammed by a nasty box on the sort slide. Very slight fracture on the very tip, bad cut, if it was the right one for second valve- I'd have needed a piston-rotor horn. As for Alumni Corps, It felt GREAT. When I play, I feel alive. So, so alive. I missed a couple notes and scared Dave, but I hit more than I missed. The charts are coming together, and I have to say the 4 guys on Bass Drum with Ream for all being different from last year and the past few were pretty good for just getting together. Anyhow, back to 1982, where a lot of good things happened to us. I've been thinking a lot about it. I have to wonder whether DCA/ the Drum Corps community figured that we'd be happy being at the bottom of the top in DCA. It's not a bad place to be. But we wanted more as a group. We were hungry. We'd beaten Reading in 1978 at some shows- beaten the Hurcs at some shows, really competed hard with Sun in 1980 and managed to come out on top- and even been close to the Cabs at finals in 1981. It was obvious we were close-- and that inside, we knew we could do it, but how? There were staff changes and a fresh approach. I discussed this before. Horn-wise, Frank Dorritte gave us a distinctive voice that we loved and bought into. Dave "Who!?!?!?" pushed quality and attention to detail, and we all stood there and nodded, and worked hard. Eric Kitchenmen took the time to show us EXACTLY how to march, and worked us hard to make it internalized. Everything was about quality, and caring greatly about quality. The once-just young guys in Percussion were now experienced young guys that moved into more demanding spots and pushed themselves with Robb Muller. A lot of us 'kids' were experienced kids with 4 or more seasons under our belt, and we got more young guys like Frank Magel on board, who we worked into the crew. We wanted to be GOOD. We wanted to be in that top group in DCA and compete! We had the people who understood how to get us there of we just, as Gary told us to do, listen to them. It wasn't easy. I see mroe and more over the last couple of years with some bands how some kids wilt under any mention of a problem. You who know me know after what I went through the last thing I'd do is get all over a kid who screws up, but it seems in this era with a lot of HS programs, the kids wilt and curl up in a ball if anything's remotely said about anything being remotely wrong. And, well, you know where those programs end up- at the bottom, of the barrel, and then, what kills me even more they sit there wondering why they get clobbered by 15 points! We were pushed, and at times pushed hard. Dave never yelled, but the horn sectionals were INTENSE, EXACT, and could be a real mental grind. It had to be right. Everyone had to be right, and on the same page. Every detail was gone over carefully with every note. Fran mentioned awhile ago that because there was no internet and no really fast communication, people really didn't know what was going on with us that winter. We didn't have a fella like Tom Moore dropping a friendly press release telling people we'd went to a west-coast-style of jazz, and that things were better than ever, and that we were excited about the upcoming season and performing for everyone. We knew we were better. We knew the music was a lot better, we knew we were marching a lot better, but where we were at- we didn't know. We just kept working hard, harder then we had been, and we knew we were getting more done at rehearsals, and knew more of the show, and knew it to a higher degree than we had known it over the winter. But what would that add up to? We didn't know what anyone else was doing, either, other than that they had to be working hard and learning as well! Looking back, we began to get some hints about ourselves from Frank, speaking of Bruce and Terry and the Milton guys. I've been at it for 21 minutes now, and my fingers are a bit rough. I'll talk about what Frank told us ASAP, which got us thinking......

The point is excellent about bottom over top. Dangerous to hit that mark before championships. I have my guesses about what Dave was thinking- talking to some 96 guys I know well, the hornline was more of a battering ram than a rapier, kinda like a tank that just drives through the walls. I thnk that was what was needed, though- the strategy paid off. Get a big sound from horns, and I mean BIG SOUND to compliment that killer juggernaut of a battery, and it would push percussion scores through the roof the way DCA sheets read at the time. Keep it close on the brass sheets, a tenth or two, and percussion would just torpedo everyone else and sink 'em. Strategy is part of the activity. It'll be interesting to see what corp's strategy will pay off next weekend. And yeah.. Dave hadn't been involved with Westshore for 13 years in 1996. I have heard enough stories here about the Cabs in the early DCA years trying to get people with connections to them onto DCA panels. And for that matter, like someone else was "nice" to Westshore's horns in that period...

I was left with the impression somewhere that 96 was the only time that happened, but I'm not suprised. I'm thinking it could well happen again this year. I'll post up some kind of "Un-review/Rachaha breakdown the situation article" later. I know the zen of the board is one thing, and the madding crowd will hate me for saying it- Unless MBI made some serious visual strides in terms of ensemble visual design and transitional flow, and their guard hikes it up a notch- they'll be hard against it to beat Reading, going on last or not. The judging panels aren't morons, they know the situation in hand, and will call things the way they happen, not blindly go by order of appearance. And I know they had holes, even with the holes, the transitional flow and elegance of design was lacking. The Hurcs have a serious lead on MBI in that department for that matter. Another thing that bothered me was the lack of "Musical Moments"- I think they were there- but they didn't manage to pull them off at Bucknell and grab me. I know, they're GOOD, YES... but there just felt like enough issues there to make me hold off on anointing them the Champs of that they have a really decent chance to pull it off. When I saw them in Scranton in '09, I was way more into the zen of what they did. They just seem to have a TON more sizzle when they do rock-em-sockem-go-for-the-throat jazz. Need my sleep, just kinda bouncing some thoughts off the guys and gals who come visit us Westshore crazies.

Well, this year it looks like MBI will go on last at prelims because the bucs show was cancelled for understandable reasons. There is only one instance where a corps that didn't go on last won the DCA championship. Oh goodness, I wonder who that corps might be!?!?!? Jeff, I think YOU know! Rainy day timorriw. Ben, will be in Hummelstown Gamin' if you're up for geekitudinally interesting stuff and need to hang out.

Never tied at ACC's either. A lot of room to work with the 100/100 sheet. 41 groups- good question. The last time I saw a DCI sheet was in 1996 but I have a guess on one thing that would help in that situation- I think they go down pretty darned far on the bottom. You have a lot more tenths you can work with, the boxes were a lot bigger, some broken down into like 3A, 3B, and 3C for instance that were massively exact and specific. Really good sheets to use if you read them and used them like you were supposed to! One thing I remember was the bottom box. Something from score 0-6, 0-10. I'd have to look in storage to see if I still have my totes and rundowns from GSC 95 and 96 somewhere, I think I do at my parents. It was this black strip with white letters, "UNREADABLE"... something like that, and served as sort of a warning to not really go there! They may as well have printed a skull and crossbones in there... With all the room to work, and IF you start people at least roughly (notice I didn't say exactly!) seeded from bottom to top, you can get it done if you have a lot of room to work inside. DCA BITD did NOT do that. They had some really freaky prelims procedure. I have no idea when it changed, after 1994 I'm certain. I could be wrong but I do believe the "associate member" corps came on first in a random draw, then the members corps in a random draw, then everyone else in a random draw. It really could and did result in some crazy swings and affected a lot of things IMHO. Combine that with a 40/40 sheet in certain captions and it was difficult at best unless you short sold people and dropped numbers below what was deserved, which isn't right either, especially since you had Sun and Brigs that were pretty darned good and trying to make Finals the one year. IIRC, I think the instructions were for prelims to get people in the right box regardless- try not to tie top three, etc. The random draw also could give you a real advantage or disadvantage. Say you're the likely 9-10 corps and end up going on after a corps like Empire. Or you're Empire and get to go on after a weaker corps- it might give you that little .1 bump here and there to get you above someone if you're close. I'm just happy they restructured the whole format. I'd imagine there are some people who think otherwise on DCP and would say it locks people into place, I'd disagree. I know enough of the DCA peeps to know they will make the decision that they think is correct and not mail in a number. Then again, there was that one year in DCI where they randomized the top 6 draw in finals and the last corps-Madison-won, IIRC beating the first SCV Phantom show? I know people who were there say Madison was totally playing above their heads and the stars and moons aligned, but I do take note they never tried that little experiment again!

Still have yet to hand out a perfect score. Close Twice. Once, because several groups were coming on afterwards- one who had beaten that group perviously on my sheet that season. Had to leave the perfecto opportunity for that group. They just couldn't do it. The other involved Middle. 99/99 with two groups to go.... 26 groups, tied no one. the way DCA does things now is much improved. having 100/100 to work with means you can avoid ties, they just use the multiplier to give the score the weight it should have. Would have been nice BITD, for Field Brass BITD they could have just taken the 100/100 sheet and multiplied by .4 instead of using an 8 point 40/40 sheet. Go into championships with .8 in the top box total off both sub captions and 9 or so groups all peforming within that set of criteria LOL. It made things... difficult.

I like Ron White, too. What scares me is this-- well, not scres, conerns: Kid gripes about the score not going up even though they got better Sat to Sun. Told the kid- If I was in your horn line and heard that or on staff, during a break, we'd sit and talk- that kind of attitude's poison. Buck up, move on, work harder! Then, a vet from same corps basically impklies that previous reads are always flawed and should not be used to consider scores. Implies Judges are prtty much boneheads, can't remember anything. Now I know this a small sampling of the corps-- but if this kid is hearing crap like that from vets in the corps... where else do you hear it from, maybe staff-- It tells me a HEAP about the recent DCA history of this corps! I mean, yeah we'd get frustrated BITD, but Ray, Dave, Rich, they'd say to work those frustrations out and work harder in practice to give no one any excuses! if WE did the job, THEY could do the job in critique and defend us! All I am gonna say, is no finals appearances since they showe d up in 03. Bushwackers taking a thumping but still working their collective butts off to get somewhere, anywhere instead of cry. They have my DEEP respect for that regardless of whatever score they end up with. I just see a potential clamity and a hard learned lesson for the whiners, IF they will EVER learn it.

I've talked to a lot of parents over many years, and when I explain it, they get it. That was the first time I've ran into people who don't get it!

YES. I also think there's a level of mistrust with some people that's incredible. You know- I started doing it because I wanted to understand and know what was going on before I started mouthing off about it and throwing bricks at the judges. 27 years later- I'm still at it, and it was a good thing my curiosity led me to it and I got involved in a positive way and grew up a lot as a result. Hard to believe I started doing it when I was 21 and change.

Jeff, I busted out laughing pretty hard when I read this. I normally don't do that. Thank you. Now you mention it, I try to "A" very, very much,. I think a lot of people wonder who those people are in the press box, and what they're thinking about. It's not some evil plot going on. What kills me is how people would think using a tote sheet/rundowns and making scores relate to previous ones you have given when the performances are similar in quality or difficulty is wrong! How else do they think you do it? I try not to be insulting, I try to be funny- but Lordy! I think a lot of it is they want Ticks brought back as if that would change things... Clap shows so they can stack the deck and stuff the ballot boxes... Or a cast of idiots in the box that they can browbeat and threaten into their way of thinking instead of thoughtful experienced people who yes- have opinions and facts- and will defend them. Just crazy! I can't think of any staff member out there who would want any of those above three things, LOL. I'd rather get ripped apart honestly and know where I stand and what to do to fix the mess I made and how I roughly relate to my competitors, and I know that's not just me thinking that way.

Got tickets from you by mail when Tom sent out the shout to get the good seats before the families and alumni get the huge blocks tied up. When I saw the seating chart last year when I got tickets at the show, I was amazed- and impressed- at the serious backing you get for the show in pre-contest sales. I'll try and look you up. Let me put it this way- I stick up for those who need stuck up for, regardless of corps here on DCP.

LOL. Tony- let me put it this way- Fran is the same way. I think BITD you had two kinds of DCA peeps. There were the flamboyant, crazy people that got crazy, were extremely extroverted with their on field personalities and fired people up that way. You and Fran were the scary quiet guys like Dave Rohrer. Very professional, had their act together, and knew what it was about and took care of business on the field where it counted. Sun had a lot of guys like that. If anyone was the crazy guy, it would be Screech, but again, he just went up there when he had to and DID it, leaving people thinking "xxxx! That guy can PLAY!" Let's add you and Screech and Fran to the list- when you were on the podium, you didn't have a thought in the back of your head you couldn't do it or that you'd blow it, did you? If you did, you knocked it out of there ASAP. If you'd have been outwardly shaky- the hornline at least would have known it, and it would have shaken them, too. You didn't fight off Westshore being shaky and second guessing yourself. I had a conversation with a young person about just this not too long ago. She was a soloist, and I told her- "Relax! You know what you're doing, it'll be FINE! Never doubt yourself when you pick up the horn!" The same when you judge! I always pray quietly before I get out there that I do the very best job I can when I do it, bring my A-game, and to be confident in my decisions and fair. The same thing. It just seems some people get scared by this!