BigW

Also, I really doubt you'd get YEA! to send Cadets to any indoor concert that's not their own without a hefty appearance fee. My guess is that they'd pretty much take all the profits home, sad to sat based on some of their MO....

Interesting! I remember in the early 80's the Cadets, before their climb to the top when they were just trying to field a corps and stay alive tapped into a bunch of kids in the south watching them rehearse, and it pretty much saved their corps. Finding the right bunch of kids at times regardless of where they are can make all the diference!

What power play? They only have one vote if they get that far. They have an established reputation, both for good and bad. On the positive, they "shut up and played", came up with a rather elegant and thoughtful visual package, and whaddaya know, won. Seems people there listened, and it paid off. The water's warm, they have one vote, let's see if this even gets off the gorund in this economic climate.

Particularly in A. Fusion's ahead of Gold right now, but not by enough to feel comfortable. Govies sitting in that window. I'd imagine there's a solid 4th A unit that might be in that tier, unsure. If not- a big fight to get into finals from everyone else. The factor may be who has more growth left in their program when they hit prelims. Looking forward to seeing them both at Reading.

Hurcs are extremely close to Empire. Cabs getting traction. Things could move depending on who can keep moving forward more than the other.

True- but when you factor in that DCI is 39 years old, to look at that end of things for them you're talking about things that happened nearly half a century ago. Groups have had ups and downs- but usually a consistent pattern emerges over time. I checked CorpsReps- BAC really only had a few years where they had solid DCI Prelims performances. Some of it had to do with the insistence by management to keep numbers A-Level low. The loss of Two-Seven and North Star while they hung on also helped to gain some membership levels. The bottom line is that from 1972 to 1999, a 27 year gap-- of no finals appearances in VFW or DCI compeition between the 8th in 1971 VFW and the 1999 DCI finals appearance. That's a long time, no matter how one spins it. Sad to say but in this day and age in terms of recruiting- tradition only gets you so far if the tradition isn't recent. With families spending about 3k or more a year to send their kids to a World class unit, money which can get you a lot of college- kids and parents want to send them to a proven product- not one that had "the glory days" measured in decades from the past. Thankfully, they did dig out and now have that proven track record to get good talent and membership. They're borderline "G8", whether one likes that whole concept or not. If they hadn't dug out, to be blunt- they may not be around or would have ended up consigned to that 16-to bottom bracket permanently.

Well, if anything the Crossmen list shows from '06 on that it's been a rough ride at best since they left YEA!. They'd started the slump before they left, however. People can keep pooh-poohing they threw away the crack at a finalist slot in '08 to a hungrier Madison Corps who clearly appeared to want it more based on what i saw and heard in QF when they'd been running 10thish nearly all of the season, but they really needed to get in there to help burninsh the image. Pooh-pooh all you want. My guess is that YEA! sold the asset because it was too much of a negative drag on their cash flow. I'm certain they learned from that and would make sure a C2 unit wouldn't have that drag.

Quite likely that their YEA! affiliation helped the organization. Sometimes you can learn what TO do and what NOT to do from an experience.

Hmm, swore to God they got in some time in the 70's but they only had a spot here and there where they did particularly well. In spite of the lack of finals appearances, they always did have a good fan base regardless.

edited/see below, it's all good.

Crossmen were sold to the current owners in TX by YEA!, which explains the move. THAT is story in and of itself that I won't discuss here. I know that's peeved some YEA and Crossmen people- but it's not something I'll talk about in public.

How can it hurt them? Easy. You're expanding corporate size. More employees, more money needed, more fundraising efforts... just like expanding any business. Financial risk is involved. YEA! tends to go through their employees like water through a fire hose. I'm sure some people can give examples of people who have worked for them for years, but I can think of at least 4 individuals who didn't last more than 2-3 years (at least one for less than one year), and if you look at their website and at their DCP announcments- the same important admin jobs pop up again and again fairly often. There's more instablility there with their administrative positions and grunts than has to really be healthy.

AFAIK, that's part of the plan, Fran. As always, I look forward to be making music for people somewhere.

WHOA. Part of me says, congratulations. Part of me wonders what happened to the person you were helping with 6 since IIRC, they're someone that's got their act very together. You know I could help if you needed it somehow. I'm not working with anyone this season. I tend to be forgotten. Your Wife is pretty understanding, I don't think she'll pull out the Luger on you.

Correct and well spoken, John. Even though I'd imagine most DCA units cut rate is still fairly low- there are no rules saying you can't cut anyone. Sometimes- some people just aren't working out and they don't realize it. In my 6 seasons at Westshore, there was only one incident in the horn line where anyone was cut. People cut themselves, usually due to realizing they couldn't make the commitment required.

AMEN, bro. You look at DCA Class A now and see what that competitive crucible has done and how GOOD the top corps are there, and it bears out that statement.

Comon, dude. You don't have a spare in your Fortess of Solitude?

Point well taken Liz. They found a clause, an "unfair advantage" perhaps in some people's eyes. Hey, they're playing by the rules as currently constituted. Changing the rules would be up to the DCA members. Knowing enough of the people who move and shake those corps, I can't see them 'afraid' of anyone.The second you have a crisis in confidence at that level about your ability to manage and make your corps happen, it's time to walk away from the activity, take a deep breath for a couple of years, and go in vacation. They might encourage change to push the age limit higher privately to said corps, and that brings up a point as well-- I just have a hunch that Cadets 2 would be a more expensive organization to be a part of as compared to most of the other DCA corps. Who has the money to afford that? Older people with jobs. The people they don't want and would be hoping to likely get to help pay for the kids that can march like Mom and Dad. I think it would be a lot harder to sell donating for someones season in DCA as opposed to DCI. Maybe they figure those kids can get a job to pay for the season. In high unemployment. When I marched it was like that. Places that hire won't be interested in anyone who can't work weekends in this environment. If they have evening rehearsals during the week- UPS won't want them. My guess is that YEA! (and I would certainly be doing this if I were them!) has studied the price points of the Bucs, Fusion, Bush, and the Cabs, and sat down and figured out how much per member they'd need to charge for what they plan to do, and they're sure not gonna run C2 at a loss, let me tell you!!!! and see if it's in the ballpark.

On that tangent- you know, the proximity of Reading to harrisburg really never had any effect on Westshore and Bucs BITD. Both found people who liked being with both organizations and stayed and kept at it. For certain, the Bucs had absolutely nothing to do with killing off Westshore. it was the internal issues that did it in, not some other organization "stealing" people....

For starters, I do believe Jay Bocook arranges for the Bucs. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. I also believe the Cabs have someone on their visual staff with BD experience. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. DCA corps have been using DCI people for help, assistance, and instruction for as long as I remember, and that's 1979. I had the pleasure of several people who had a DCI background with me or fellow corps members during the 1979-1984 period. I could provide a list if one would like to help emphasize the point...

Man... Fairfax is all about HEAT. Bright, blinding heat on a field with no shade for miles and trying to stay focused so Eric doesn't come for you so you gotta do 20. And then stay standing after 5 people pass out around you and Drew is running from person to person like a chikcken with his head cut off. And, I will say with pride Eric NEVER came after me for 20, and I also managed not to pass out, though I did start getting wobbly.

Yeah. We need a Superdimensional Time Space Reality Splitting and Alteration Device for the 20th so we can be in both places and have fun. Anyone have one we can borrow?

I do love Dave a ton. He can make me appear to be slightly more well adjusted than I actually am. Lead Bari is kind of an attitude. Can you blow the high ones all day and not get scared you can't? If you can, it can be a lot of fun.

Heard some knowledgeable people talk about electronics last weekend, it's more to help a front ensemble carry over horns without having to beat the bars to death than anything else. I'm coming more to understand that used intelligently and thoughtfully, not gratuitously- they're not totally evil. Corps that are "using them for using them's sake" aren't doing well. They're a tool that needs to be used with quite a bit of thought to work well. Not a means to an end. As for Hop, why not? He's one vote. You need five more people to take his side. That subjects been beaten to death already. Let the member corps decide what to do and cast their votes as they see fit. I doubt they'd do something to kill the activity. Maybe some trust in them might be in order? As for this hypothetical corps "stealing" people, what about anyone 22 or older? They can't go there. Jump on in, the pool is warm in DCA. Not everyone wants to deal with the YEA! philosophy or way of life. Why let this scare or intimidate anyone? For all anyone knows, this is a trial balloon, just an idea floated out there that YEA! may or may not decide they can do when they get down to brass tacks. Also, perhaps they price themselves out of contention for some people. Maybe they can afford to march with someone else and not C2. Perhaps they cut some people that then have a chip on their shoulder and go elsewhere to show them they can cut it. One never knows. As for the one individual previously posted- If they knew half of what I know about what goes on with YEA!, or really thought about YEA! does and why they do it- maybe they wouldn't be such a blind fangirl. It's in spite of that I like Cadets this year and think they're more exciting than they have been in some time. As for the Cadets going back to "This I believe" and "I have a great life so interview me about it on NPR..." After seeing the Angels and Demons show this year, I 'does' believe they might have gotten the message and decided to go back to what people like about them and put together a rather engaging and thoughtful program. They're not going to go down that path again unless stark raving crazy insanity takes hold. They'd deserve what they'd get if they did. Hey, everyone predicted big, bad, evil, not from here and deep-pocketed Toyota would dominate NASCAR and ruin it for everyone. It didn't happen that way, did it!?

Onwe of my first job interviews after I graduated from WCU was at a Millersville job fair in spring of '86 for that job. Everyone wanted it! Didn't know Harlan had passed away. I always liked him a ton. Borrowed my Amish hat when he played Papa Yoder for Plain and Fancy. I always felt I owed him a favor for having me in working with NL that year. When he became the sales rep for Hershey fundraising, I was afraid he'd visit, because-- how could I say no to a guy I owed a favor to? I can tell you I can't recall any comments at LD when I was there from 93 to 98- at least in front of me. I mentally had enough on my plate there whether it was covering for T when he was sick or laid up, or just being the staff Mad Scientist when things got goofy and the problem needed broken down and solved and everyone else was stalled on the issue, or when they needed a wild idea. Always contantly trying to figure out the now and the future there, not dwell on anything else. That's why I think I was there and I was kept there. Every so often an out of the box thinking person was needed to keep things working, so it was good to have me aorund.