BigW

The Flag was stolen in '77 or '78. I've seen photos of Nate Ward on the podium in that period conducting the corps in competition with that flag draped around the podium with a huge Bugs Bunny doll wearing a Westshore T-Shirt propped up on the box as well. That stuff wasn't around in '79.

Yes, Jim, you're correct. And really, in this day and age, it's absolutely no crime to gain the necessary experience and skills one needs to get into the corps you want to get into if you're not making the cut. It's not like it used to be by far. There's a wonderful old Video McCormick's put out in like 1974 or 5, "The Challenge", which I have a copy of. The main kid in the story is a 14 or 15 year-old Rookie Mello player for SCV. Like you'd see that now! The typical DCI top end member is usually a college student, most of the musicians music majors. Much, much tougher now. You have to be exceptional to break in in HS. Know of one former student of mine who did- but he was crackerjack and massively focused, and not to brag- well mentored by everyone on our staff. We did brace him for the possibility he might not get a spot in the Cadets, believe me. All of the top DCI corps have top kids that are absolute dynamite in whatever they do now. Talent is pretty much even- they're all very, very, very good. It's all about what program they're given that's the big factor. Guessing on that- you may as well get out your big black magic 8 ball and start shaking away!!!!! *Maybe*....... *answer unclear, try again*.....

In this activity, at any level, you can make a lot of improvements, get better, and still not move up a lot. Everyone out there in the top DCI classification from bottom to top does perform with a certain level of quality and sophistication- the bar has really been raised in terms of overall performance quality from top to bottom. It's not like it used to be when you could hear some real hackle-raising stuff in late season from the lower-end DCI groups that could make yah duck. I don't think anyone disrespects Teal Sound, it's more that people are wanting to see how they stack up when they start actually getting evaluated and see how they relate.

I saw the ringchaser comment- There are two sides to that. I was part of an upcoming DCA corps- my first season was Jim's last season in '79- when we nearly won in '82, we got a few of them in '83. We also got some refugees from sick, dying, and ailing corps, too. Some were great fits and to me, I treat them the same as I treat Jim- someone that I make sure I have their back, period- and I know Jim has mine. Some were decidedly not good fits. I can think of two or three in particular that caused a lot of drama for others and drove wedges in our chemistry. One, I literally tried to strangle in my sleep on the bus when she was kvetching about everyone else in the guard except her and her special friend. Everyone else stank, nyah nyah nyah... I fell asleep thinking- "If she says one more thing about any of my friends in this corps- I'll kill her." Evidently, while I was sleeping I did try, LOL. I found out about what I did later that day at breakfast when a couple of people told me what happened and shook my hand after most of Bus 1 was kind of looking at me a bit scared..... So, yeah, don't knock all the 'ringchasers', huh? Some, I'll give a huge bearhug- they're old goombahs to me, and well, the others, I already tried to strangle and failed. Point made. Also, I was approached by another ex-corps-mate over a beer in college about thinking about moving on to another corps- where, was not the really important issue to him. He'd done Crossmen, Westshore, and BD. His point was that it was a good thing to learn from different instructors, different methods of education and teaching techniques, different styles of music, and that he was worried as a friend I could end up getting stale. I was happy where I was, and we did have some serious augmentation of staff right when he talked to me, so I did get a lot of the fresh viewpoints and ideas by staying. It all worked out for him, and for me. There's no right or wrong answer to this question. Both ways can be good. Heck, Ralph Hardimon offered my sister a spot in SCV in 81 or 82- I told her to get on the plane- it was a marvelous opportunity. She's a wonderful musician. She told me that she was happy at Westshore, loved her friends, and that I was just trying to shoo her off because her big bro was trying to get rid of his little sis so he could run wild and not get ratted on to Mom and Dad. Hmm- that's 10 percent of why, I'll admit. I really wanted her to go and learn and do something cool. Ralph asking her to go to SCV was like God asking Moses to go up Mount Sinai back then.

Oh, he got the job over 90 applicants including myself- and I didn't even get the interview even though I've got a Master's and worked two stints there as interim director and instructed there for 6 years. They wanted to kill the program, and he's going a smack-up job of it making 40+K a year while I throw boxes at UPS. A lot of districts are reacting virulently aganist competition programs. Heck-- a lot of them are looknig to ditch instrumental music altogether. It culd be the overall plan once he's knocked the program down to 20 or less kids from the 75 he started with to just trash the whole thing as a cost-cutting measure. I wouldn't put it past this district.

Thanks, Jeff- yeah- '79 was a real up and down thing. DCA evidently felt that they needed a lot of different winners during the season to get the fans excited, and I would think show people that they had several good corps that were good to watch. That's how we ended up at Midland paired up with Rochester, and they did try very hard to win there as well. It was before they really started serously getting personnel and making program chages wholesale, so we did win, and it ws a big deal for the corps' morale and for our confidence. We were happy coming in second to Reading all the time- believe me- that was also a big improvement for us- but the win was fun- getting to do the victory play-through, etc. it was good to feel like we could win some of the time! And yeah- Midland was dying at the time. Dad actually worked for Crucible Steel as a young fellow for awhile, which was that big deserted steel plant a lot of us are talking about. It used to be a nice little mill town- much like Ambridge, Aliquippa, many of the small towns out there along the river. I'll have to ask him- I know he worked on parts of the Fort Pitt Bridge when it was built, and I'll have to see if that was at Crucible. HB will know exactly what I'm talking about there. And once the Crusaders got the ball rolling that was how they managed to get us in part at Bucknell, which again- really had a lot of us frustrated. I promise to get back to how Truman really said the right stuff at the right time to us, especially a lot of us noobs who were still learning stuff every day, but its 120 AM. And to be honest, and not being a soft soaper- I do have a ton of respect for Truman in every way possible, so when I talk about this, I want to actually do a good job on it. He deserves at least that out of me, huh!?

Cloud-- No question is too stupid when I teach- and I hope you're the same way-- there are guys who have the machine tools and ability to custom build all-metal mouthpieces to spec, even Baritone/Euphonium Mouthpieces? I know 30 years ago a Tubist I talked to showed me a custom he used but the rim and cup were machined or molded than polished up from Lexan and then a bronze throat and shank were attached to it. Any firms you might refer us to or recommend? You have me extremely curious now. I like to learn. I don't care if I'm ancient.

Midland was very important for the corps- I think we won our first DCA contest ever there in '79. I think I'm correct on that- Right, guys?

Hey, Ben... You may saaaaaaaaay you're a normal, Corps never leaves you. We have learned to hide and blend in amongst normals as a witty and very necessary survival technique. By the way- Have you see Cross? Lemme give you a hint, since DCP frowns on linkys to like DCI corps . I am trying to blend in like a normal and cooperate with the overlords. I do this to amuse myself and when I find it has some value to do so. Go to YouTube, search "1991 Crossmen" and just watch if you're not familiar with this show. I have many love for this show. I think at one point you can hear Eric Kitchenmen yell, "Fire in the hole!" The shows in 2 parts. Part 2 has one of the grooviest percussion features known to humankind, and I luff that horn book. Also I luff the percussion writing at the end of "Minuano", the opener after the "Last Train Home" fanfare. Good stuff, which I think you will jam heavily on.

If it had a hair-band wing it could be Byerly or Shade. 2 missing parts to that uni- the ascot was not white, it was powder blue -and.... the sash off the cummerbund is missing. The cape, we did and did not use them, so not as big an issue. Funny Chomodley story time. (I use the PROPER british spelling) July 4th weekend. Corps is coming back from like upstate NY, something unreasonable down Rt 15. We stop between Milton and Lewisburg to eat at the McDonald's/strip mall thingie there. There's a huge tent with someone selling "Fireworks". They were selling more like explosives like they do down south. Anyhow, I was starved, and I did not fool around. Before the bus stopped, I was up at the door and ready to hit the ground running so I could get to be one of the first in line. It was one of the few things I had down to a fine art.... Howie stops and throws open the door. Before I can even jump, I see Ben flying out of Bus 2, hands over his head screaming like a little girl, running full tilt to the explosives. COOL! AWESOME! I go and eat. before long, Ben comes in with at least one HUGE bag filled with various fireworks and explosive pyrotechnic materials, with this HUGE beaming smile on his face. We eat. I suggest that Ben blow something up in the lot as a sample of the coolness of what he got. I was curious, and he had a LOT of it. I figured he'd shoot off a bottle rocket or a big string of firecrackers. WRONG. He gets out like this... 32 ounce slurpee sized canister marked something like "Big-jolly-happy smoke bomb." It was BIG. Cool, whoa, waaay cool... We have a big, clear spot, nothing around in the parking lot, everything's safe, all is good- he pulls the string, or lights it, and like the top popped off, and this incredible gout of white smoke just... well... it just billowed out. Ben and I- I think Rook was behind us, quietly observing as he was wont to do along with a few other people, were all like... "Cool, real cool!" "Yeah, real cool!" This smoke just keeps coming, and we're just admiring it. About 2 minutes later, the smoke STILL pouring out... we start hearnig the screech of brakes, we see I think Barb (Mowbray) Haring running towards 15, I go look over, my jaw hits the floor. The winds had blown all this smoke across all FOUR lanes of US 15 at the intersection to the mall, obscuring the light and everything. Cars were screeching to a halt, the intersection was in semi-total chaos and all traffic halted, people trying to creep through the intersection... I stood watcing for like 3 seconds, Ben was there, I blurt out... "Whoa... the smoke's blowin' across all four lanes! THAT'S NOT COOL!" Ben is like.. "No, no, that's not cool at all!!!!" Rook is looking over at us with his hawk eye, Barb I think is trying to boss us around and trying to get us to put this thing out.. like Ben or I would remotely know how to put this huge smoke bomb out- come on- we only knew how to START one! The bomb is STILL smoking.... I am then thinking.. Okay.. call the Smokey bear "Trooper", be respectful, tell him the truth, that we just wanted to see a lot of really cool smoke and didn't realize it'd go across US 15, and we were not trying to cause any trouble. Hopefully, he'd believe me. What was really irritating me was that I was worried that a State Trooper might not believe me for telling the TRUTH... Thankfully, after what seemed about 3 hours, the smoke bomb started sputtering and died out, the smoke cleared quickly, and I think we all ran to the buses and we peeled out. Nowadays, the news media would have reported that notorious terrorist Abdul-Ben-Chumley tried to stage a major crash on a busy highway.... What's good is that we had fun, no one was hurt, no one crashed, and we learned a valuable lesson to check the prevailing wind direction when one sets off a gi-normous smoke bomb.

I never knew how to spell Nebrowski's name for Lord's sake. I just remember him yelling "TWOOO MOOOORE HOURS!" on the bus in the middle of the trip.... I'll get back to Col. Crawford when I'm awake. 4 AM, time for bed.

Yes, sir. It was "Showboat". I figure the "Did you see Cross?" comment was the dead giveaway. And yeah, 'Babby', his Dad, and Bambi were the best! That Tiger Van was the coolest van ever! The best thing ever to hang out in! I remember the one day you, Babby, Boltzie, were all foolin' around on the tymps- I think in Midland, PA and surrounded me while you kept playing, LOL. Fun! Cool! As was the word we all used back in the day for everyting good- "COOL! AWESOME!" and of course the opposite.. in a typical Westshore conversation c. 1980 with Ben, Rook and I... "Ooo, whoa, that's not cool, is it?" "No... no... not cool at all. They need to Bayonne those hats or something." "Yeah, it'd be awesome then." "What do you think, Rook?" "I suck." "Stop that, Rook! You don't suck!!!" "Nah. he can't help it..." "Read my shirt closely- I know- I Suck." I have a couple good stories involving Ben I haven't got to yet. One is one of the FUNNIEST daggone things that I have EVER seen, it was.. COOL.. AWESOME... and best of all- and I am serious- no one got hurt or seriously injured as a result. And yeah it WAS AWESOME.

Ben.... Good points all around and thanks for the help on some of this And if you figger out who I am, keep it under your big white hat that you "bayonned". Hey- did you see Cross? Actually, you're gonna figure in to the next thing about the Lewistown show, LOL.

Al Chez may well have taught this clown as well as myself, IIRC... does this tell you anything about him?

No one will 'persuade' this former student of mine. He's running the program entrusted to him right down the tubes. No sense in getting into a 'kicking contest', but everyone's let him get away with murder to this point and it's not been good for the rest of the kids that aren't in his Jazz Band. I think most of the guys like him are just simply unable to deal with the kind of discipline, time, intensity, and creativity the activity demands of a competent director. A good HS instrumental program can and should be strong in all facets.

That's sad and ridiculous. More and more of us with corps experience have earned education degrees such as myself and greatly value what we learned there and easily carry it into the classroom and make a difference with our students. A former student of mine said in a recent job interview that "....serious marching band people can't be good musicians." I was insulted, and have yet to corner that little dweeb and remind him that while I did corps, I went undefeated in Band Festivals up through All-State Band and did well in Intercollegiate Band, and well... he didn't. I also went to a better school of music than he did as well. Sounds like your sons had this dweeb as their director. Do we need to go have a pointed chat with this goober for you? I also have a guess this clown is all about his Jazz Band and his gigs with his combo on weekends. that seems to be the running pattern with a lot of those kind of guys, which is even more sad.

I'd want them to go where the feel they fit in and belong and like working for the staff, are treated well, and are educated well. That could be a just about any DCI or DCA corps, really. It's wrong to force someone into a certain corps if they don't fit that corps' personality well and feel like they aren't a real part of the group. It's hell to sit leaning against a building or under a crappy shade tree getting fried up during a break and wonder if you fit in and belong when you're a kid. I know about that. I was lucky to have some close friends in Westshore to hang with when things got tough and a very supportive brass staff that really, really encouraged me when the visual staff was just about to hang me as an example to encourage the others as a kid. I hung in there and eventually thrived. that's the kind of place you want your kid in- a place where they can thrive and succeed if they work hard. I'd just want them to be happy doing the activity and playing the kind of music and style of performace they want to do. I wouldn't want to force them to live out what I wanted to do, LOL. Just be happy and proud to be part of the corps they're in. The question also assumes there's enough money and the student makes the corps they audition for. That;s another issue, though....

LOL, point taken!

Anyhow- back to the story at large! The Crusaders were down- and definietly not out. they did make serious program changes, and they did bring in people- their '78 program was pretty tough, and they used a lot of it again. We knew we were getting better- We worked hard to react to some of the criticisms from the judges, (one of them being that Smoothie was boring as sin) and-- this I know-- the corps started to cook like it never had before. I mean we weren't at a full boil, but... we were going to a higher level. All of us. I know the peeps from the Rebs had been there, but a lot of us hadn't felt that feeling that you get when the show works, the music is tight and exciting, and everything starts to click instead of just lie there and exist. There were some critical moments that season for the corps as well- Scranton, Bucknell, and Lewistown- And somewhere in there came the new uniforms. Before I go on, though-I mentioned the whole "Blue Slime" ting- we had the original Blue Devils Unis that they wore before they went to the iconic ruffled shirts and snazzy jackets. There's an example of those uniforms to look at if one does a video search for "1975 Blue Devils": I don;t need DCP people freaked out about me linking somehting illegal or bad. By 1979, they'd become less brighter and quite worn. Someone had also added a wider white stripe over the thinner red and white stripes you see here. All that satin, etc... hence "Blue Slime..." The silvery material on thiose sashes and cummerbunds were pretty worn out too. When we got the new unis much later in that season, we were pretty stoked. Black, the bright blue and white stripes on the sleeves and the sash, cummerbund, etc. They were OUR uniforms, which was nice, and they weren't worn and falling apart. Looking back at it, it was one heck of a morale boost for us to have them. We had a new look, we kept the black shakos for awhile- I think we finally went to the white Aussies in 1980, I think we kept the Shakos for '79, but please correct me if I'm wrong. We were also getting pretty excited and confident- and also somewhat frustrated. Sometimes, things worked out well at the contests- like at Scranton. I'd mentioned before that this was the first and I think only shot we'd have at the Hurcs before DCA Champioships- I need to see the archives on the DCA website when they're posted up to make certain- but I know we were about as focused as we ever had been up to that time and put on as good a show as we could have. We knew our scores all year had been in the Hurcs' ball park as well. When we went out to retreat, Larry told us to just stay in control and keep cool regardless of what way things went. We weren't sure if that was a hint from Larry, and I know we were trying to get some kind of a clue out of him at that point, but he was pretty impassive when I tried to read his face. I don't know if he did know what the outcome was or if he just knew it'd be close and just to keep cool. Good advice. No need to be stupid, and we were really, really nervous. We didn't see the Hurcs, and We knew we'd done as good a job as I think we could have expected out of ourselves. All I know is that when we beat the Hurcs by .5, I believe, Benny Dombrowski's Girlfriend in the Guard went down like a sack of bricks and there were quite a few grins and clenched fists, and a few whispered comments about "a corps of our caliber" coming out of our retreat block. It was a pretty big moment for the corps, and we'd at least showed the Hurcs they just should have left us alone. Maybe we weren't a big-time killer corps- but we'd shown we weren't the bunch of farmers they thought we were. I'm still pretty proud of that whole thing and that evening. Everything wasn't all beer and skittles, though. Bucknell threw us a split-finger fastball right into our heads while we were leaning forward. Remember- the Crusaders had been doing a lot to get things under control. They'd been closing the gap on us, understandably so- they were fixing and re-doing the program and adding people. They had a lot more room to improve, so the gap had closed up. We'd been getting better, too, but when we'd ended up losing to them at Bucknell, I remember the crowd got rowdy, and I also remember Larry telling us then to keep cool regardless, that everyting would be dealt with. In short, a person on the panel called the contest pretty much single-handedly, and I know the critique was heated. I think like... Half the corps or more stood outside that room while Rich made his points and stated his vehement disagreement with the outcome in only the way Rich can do it, and having Donnie Sweger frowning at the room's entrance, I'm certain was pretty intimidating, LOL. One rule I had was to never make Donnie unhappy. Usually I made him laugh a lot, which was a really good thing. I think I usually made a LOT of people laugh in Westshore, anyhow... I mean, the guy hauled those 8 ton bronze railroad wheels masquerading as cymbals around all day.... On the lighter side, "Brother Dave" called for an Underwear Walk in protest and several of the T-Birds went out with them in sympathy. I was not part of that Underwear Walk, and I will not name names other than "Brother Dave". I do know a lot of the normals in that parking lot freaked out, including I think my parents and maybe Grandmother, LOL. I know Dad was unamused about the result, but he didn't think marching around beered up in your Mighty Mouse briefs was the thing to do, LOL. So, we were kind of crazy- we knew we could do well- we'd beaten the Hurcs in a stand-up fair fight, but we also had that nasty setback at Bucknell, and our scores were flattening out. We were getting antsy, and frustrated. that's where Truman Crawford comes into the picture.... (to be continued)

Yes, the Crusader Contras had the black with white numbered shirts in '79, and they wold wear them in retreat. And yes, the Westshore Contras made the "3+John=12" shirts as a response. They all came over and shook John's hand at DCA finals retreat, good laughs all around. John Close was a freakin' beast- a Fine musician, but lord, he could PLAY. And Julie, his wife was quite good, too, as well as Craig, Rickie Lee's less famous Brother. Yeah, John and Julie rode Harleys to rehersal and John had those gray eyes that scared the livin' bejeezus out of me when I was a kid- but once I got to know him, he was really laid back and great to hang with. We had some other guys later who were also absolute Beast on Contra- Art Murray, and in the '80's Nelson, who also marched later with the Cabs- Fantastic guys who could drop the floor out from under your feet when they sat on the horn.!

No, either Dobbs or Vanderbilt were the buglers on F Troop- here- in this scene, Dobbs is the bugler... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r0F86A-CY0 Watch at 3 minutes for the expert bugling by Dobbs.... And the whole episode's great BTW...

Jeff- It's kind of funny that you thought 1980 was unreal. From my perspective and I think from others, we were on our plan, to keep getting better and moving up every year. We were so focused on that goal, that I don't think any of us thought we'd stop. Sun had a real rough year that year, and we took advantage of that after a tough, tough tussle. I just haven't got that far along yet. It seems there's a pattern here- we profitied in spades from other corps' hiccups for several years running. And a few years later on in this story, another corps more similar to us in some ways than you'd really think rolled along and did the same thing to us. Again, more on that later. More or less, we threw the block that enabled them to run for several touchdowns afterwards, and God bless 'em for getting there, too.

Looked at Corpsreps.com, yes- Cru did a lot of changes, basically took their '78 show and took out a huge amount of the Jesus Christ Superstar material from earler in the season. Left some of it as the opener. But I do know there was a part early on using the music from "Heaven on Their Minds" and the 39 Lashes" as well as from "Gethsemane" and the main theme I do believe, that included the whole thing with the guard. We saw this show several times in the early part of the '79 season, Changes started in July, contimued till championships IIRC. What was there on Labor Day in Hershey was a totally different program than there was in June. I know I'm not daft on this issue. And no I wasn't "inhaling" like a few guys in the corps and some other corps too, were at that time, either, LOL!

Yes- and with that, it started a real explosion of serious musical composition and visual ideas for the activity, too. It was like the chains and shackles were broken. Took some time for some folks to get it, but eventually they did. I remember at DCI Prelims at that time explaining why it was important to get rid of the tick system to some folks, and it blew their minds. They'd really not thought about it in depth.

Then correct my innaccuracies by all means, Tom. I do remember Gary Ferris as the Drum Major for a good part of the season in 1979, wearing a largely black with silver uni with a cape with a white crusdaser's cross on it. Is that incorrect? I do distinctly remember the corps growing from about 35 to 40 horns to about 55-65 later in the season (with a total 10 Contras that came out of the woodwork, too!) and personally watched a rehearsal led by Corky himself with a lot of people I recognized as being old time Crusaders out there rehearsing that weren't there two weeks before. Or was that smallish fellow on the podium with the big shock of white hair conducting like he was trying to start a tornado with his intensity and inner force of personality someone else? Yes, Vince left- and I know there were a lot of personal issues there with a lot of people. I'd seriously like to see your side of it- I do also distinctly remember the Superstar program, the stylized whips with the bright red ends to them, and the rifles aimed at Jesus in the off-white robe. I also remember him being lifted on the shield at the end pf that segment- which was the best part of that segment of program by the way. That's pretty unforgettable stuff. I've seen at least a couple of hundred band and corps shows live since 1976 and studied a lot of recordings and film/video of programs from earlier than that as a pretty serious student of the activity and I know I've seen nothing like what I saw in that show for the first half of the 1979 season before or since. I know serious changes were made in that program from about mid-July to the Labor Day weekend, serious, serious re-writes, and everyone had to have really killed themselves to make them all work. So- where am I goofing up on what happened there? If you want- I can try and contact Steve Vickers for a copy of the DCW article where the "noted thespian" involved in creating the Crusader program was mentioned to confirm I'm not absolutely loopy on that one. That's also a pretty unforgettable piece of copy, too. I can't make things like that up, Tom. "Thespian!?!?!?" Tom- I had to look that word up in the dictionary back in 1979, seriously. Dad told me to get the dictionary off the bookcase and learn, LOL. But please- tell your side and make any necessary corrections or annotations regarding my point of view of it! It's partly why I'm doing this- everyone's got *their* side from the perspective that they were sitting in at the time, and you were on the other side of the fence dealing with that whole situation- It'd be an understatement to say it couldn't have been easy. I felt the pressure coming off that Crusader hornline at the late-season practice and their intensity, and watched Corky push himself and everyone else pretty darned hard and I mean borderline frantically hard. There were a few of us who quietly watched and observed on our break and we knew you guys weren't fooling around at that point. I remember him telling the corps loudly at one point that "They didn't want to be third that night", which meant behind the Bucs... and by default, us. So, if there are any inaccuracies about certain aspects of the program that I saw, or the fact that you guys tried very hard to bring in a lot of additional experienced personnel and make serious changes in a very serious effort to recover the season- and you did make a real good run at it- and you came pretty close to pulling it off- talk about it! This is the chance to try and get things straight from both ends. I also wasn't finished with that end of things, which might have led to some of the issues you may have. No offense is intended- but there are some serious object lessons to be learned for everyone. I know at the end of the story I'm trying to relate, much the same thing happened to Westshore, Tom. We went down the tubes in '84 and it took many more years to rebuild after that. I'm still in '79. But please, hit me with your end of it. And-- where am I missing the boat, specifically? I'm not insulted- I'm in fact extremely happy you want to get involved and have your say, please do!