BigW

I'm very glad some of this will be publicly rectified.

If you play a horn, Westshore Alumni might be the trick for you if you just want to have fun for a day or teo. Bit of a drive, but you might be able to meet up with someone in the Western PA area to get in for a practice or the actual SiB performance.

Cadets/Hoppy hate hecklers, most of them come out in droves for them in particular noawadays. I know I heckled them when they did the "ABC's of Modern Music " show at East prelims- that's another story for another place LOL. it was well deserved. That part of the show was re-choreographed between East and Championships, for good reasons. I can't think of any other corps that's attracted the old-schooler's ire to the degree they have. Sad. There are times where they've been well-loved. Always very extreme. The one thing I will say concerning the old school drum corps hecklers- if they *like* you, you will find no better fans. They're the ones jumping up and down on the bleachers like they're trampolines screaming like maniacs for you. From my observations, Phantom knows who those guys are at Allentown because they're lighting up the crowd for them. You'd think that kind of issue would cause people to balk at using the equipment. Were they penalized? With DCI as tight as it is at the top, is it worth a risk of penalties? I know valve slides and mouthpieces can pop loose, sticks can break, etc. but usually those things aren't as cosmic a problem. Gary- were you with Erie in '93 when your Mimi-Corps was up at Scranton and won? Curious. I have good a story about that, too.

True, Scott, SiB is a veritable Buffet spread of a lot of history, talent, and musical ideas from a very rich activity. It's great value for the money. Those who would disagree haven't hit a movie, gone to a museum, Amusement Park, sporting event or concert recently and shelled out the shekels to get in. And as many others here have said, it's the best way to get your appetite whetted for the Summer. Speaking of history, I had to do a bit of a Drum Corps History lesson at a KKY Almuni event and tell a young lady there that yes- there WERE all-girl corps active that were quite good back in the day, especially the Ventures. I now feel like some walking Rosetta Stone now when the people that were my age when I marched start asking stuff. I'm happy I met the people I met when I marched , asked questions, and learned stuff from them about the history of the activity and saw some of those people in full-tilt action. To know where we came from is a very impprtant thing when one tries to understand what's happening now, I think. And as for electronics, Scott--- I think they'll kill themselves. I've given it some thought, I watched and listened to the 2009 Holy Name video and thought hard about it. The expense to buy and maintain that stuff has to be serious. Could I spend that money in a better way to further the strength and well-being of my corps? I'd bet yes. Take that money and provide better meals for my corps on tour, for example? I'd rather have a better-fed bunch of people that play and march their butts off and have better morale without the electronics. My guess is that to really make it work, one would have to do a run-through and careful sound check in the venue before every contest to properly set a board. Will that happen? Should that happen??? Hmm... Otherwise the addition of the amplification, etc etc ends up sounding really cheap as compared to the program that's not amped. It doesn't blend well acoustically if you're not careful. And I think when it doesn't sound seamless, it cheapens the effect impacts. Also, just wait until someone has the system crash. It's prolly happened before in DCI and I just don't know about it. I saw this happen in an ACC contest right in front of my eyes. Keyboards and amps went dead, the girl got frustrated and yelled to her director- in the middle of the *championship* performance in anguish- "It's not working!", the poor director tried to dig himself a hole in the bleachers, several thousand people in the stands groaned... is it worth rolling the dice on expensive sound equipment blowing up in competition? I'm not a dice roller myself. I'd rather roll my dice on traning my people to perform well and have more control over things like that. If people say this doesnt happen... Watch this at 6'07", BoA Super-Regionals, this band was 4th at Supers, they WON Regionals, and were Second at nationals when everything worked. If you tell anyone in our activity you've got a 67 percent chance of something going right in a show... Well... enough said. And this isn't some fly-by-night organization winging it, either. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVIzlQ8soUE I like this show a lot- but does this belong in corps? Nah. We don't need it. BoA is cool, but this is one thing that's just not a good bleed-over concept. Anyhow, sorry for digressing- but since a couple of peeps brought some of this up, I thought about what they said very seriously and just wanted to answer them thoughtfully- something that they deserved.

All I remember was being INSANELY bored on the bus when we got piled up at the toll booth and I saw her. Baldy didn't believe me, confirmed the sighting, and Bus 1 took a suddetn frikkin' list to the left when everyone ran from the right to left side of the bus when they all wanted to see for themselves- and well, you can't blame anyone for not wanting to look. We were ALL bored, BORED, BORED! Most trips were never like that one, always something interesting, someone doing something stupid/borderline insane, someone crashing a trailer into us. I think we'd been heavily rehearsed that day, it was hot, and we were all wiped out. Thank God that girl liked to air her parakeets out in public when the temp rose. Be thankful for the little things in life. Well, in her case, the nice average-sized things in life. I have never felt a bus tip to one side like that before, or since. It still amazes me.

Yeah, unless I forgot how to count, that would mean he started when he was no older than 6 years old. Good Googly-Moogly!!!!!

We've been trying to keep the db level within reason with Westshore Alumni- hope we're not the ones rocking too many boats. We know the Forum is chock full of reverb. I'm playing at 70 percent in there myself. Lord help us if I opened up all the way. Gads, it would be awesomely disgusting. Well, what's happened with DCI is that they've gone to fewer contests in better venues and upped the price. I think as a side effect it's forced out a lot of the old fans. Many wonder if it's deliberate because they're the ones that bicker the most because they might know better about certain things and are, well, pickier about what they like and what they do not like. Problem is everyone does need to make money. Fuel costs are pushing tour budgets. The judges need paid. The contest host might want to pocket something for their non-profit organization (usually it is one) for their time and effort. Unsure what all the solutions are. I'm not paid to fix things. Some organizations may think they have fixed things by doing what they do right now. All I know is that I like getting together once a year to play for people and make them happy and hang out with some great friends for a bit. And... well... if you compare blowing out a fresh can of shaving cream all over a bus floor to see how much was in the can to some of the other stuff, Rick, on the back of the judge's sheet, that rated as somewhere around mid-box-2 tame in the Rickie Lee outrageousness rubrics. Pretty fascinating it created about a 5 foot diameter puddle by all accounts. I'd also imagine it made bus 2 smell better, too. You used Noxema or Barbasol if my memory serves right from walking near the Bus 2 door and simply breathing. Trying to think of the Box 5 stuff now. If I do think of it, how much can I actually put on DCP?

Scott- having the bare-bones percussion section you outline takes you to 16 percussion and then runs you up to about a 45 member corps- a corps with a composition much like the Boston Crusaders fronted circa 1979-1981ish in Open Class DCI and actually did very well against quite a few corps when all was said and done. Likely more than coincidence. Anyhow- if you wanted the percussion on the field and marching- I guess if you wanted something that wasn't ridiculous, you'd be looking at 45 peeps, actually. And I've thought about the whole mini- to field corps jump. 20 makes sense with the minis- One percussionist usually, 18 horns, one conductor, and they usually play in smaller, more intimate settings, in a standstill packed in. They pack enough firepower to get it done where they need to get it done. The jump from going to putting a workable mini together to a field unit is a jump of a few orders of magnitude. The comment about many groups not necessarily wanting to move up is very appropriate and correct, I'd wager. Costs for equipment. Travel. Instruction. Uniforms. Arrangements. Many more shekels and pazzozzas would have to go into fronting the group when compared to the mini. And... if you have your 20-man mini, fleshing out that mini with percussion and guard should get you to the 35 person min anyhow. And I'm not going to even talk about the cost and logistics incurred by trying to move up and make the jump. Also- how many Minis are turning people away because they already have enough people? I don't know the answer. That being said, it wouldn't take very many people looking to put something together if they were shut out to make their own group...

LOL- not everything that happened on 2 stayed there, Scott. Some of it was so ludicrous word got out. Ricky Lee and the can of Shaving Cream, for example. And that's at least moderately tame...

Tony, if you want to play, come play in the hornline. Look us up. Always looking for baris, esp. the 2 and 3 parts. We have great people there, but could use more. Seriously. We have guys that have been around longer than you or me playing some good stuff and having fun. Don't think for even a tenth of a second you couldn't do it or that you wouldn't be welcome. Nothing better than being up there with everyone just wanting to play hard for each other and for our loved ones and fans in the Forum and then seeing they really DUG it when we're done.

Amen! Preach on!

It's always a pleasure to see Fran and Barb. Scott and I performed with Barb and against Fran. 'Against' sounds harsh-harsh is not my intent when using that word. We were working hard to beat one another for a few seasons in every good way that's implied. How's that!? I think of Barb's Mom and Dad often. I know some of us would look them up at a contest after we went on to see if he liked our performance that night. He was always really encouraging and had a ready smile for us. Important for a 16-17 year old kid. I'm certain he was with the Westshoremen-Bonnie Scots for at least a year. I know I saw him in one of the photos of that corps and asked many years ago about it, and was told he'd been involved. Barring some kind of personal disaster here, I'll be there playing my best for the crowd in 2011. It'd take a major thing to happen to me to change that plan. If my lips fell off, I'd stand besides Scott banging on a tin cup with a spoon like Steve Martin did in "The Jerk" (and just as badly) if they'd let me. Gary, I have a feeling your brother Tom was one of those "polite and quiet" guys. I'll have to grab a pic of the 83 corps sometime and look. When you're marching around guys named Apache, Boozer, Boltzie, Weasel, Chomodley, Buckwheat, Plant, Manson, Woodstock, and Hoover, you quite easily blend into the background real well just by being even somewhat normal.

Jeff's correct- it'd be a slipperly slope. A line had to be drawn. Really, a 35 member corps is stretching everything very tight and thin in terms of what it can provide, espcially if you're performing in something other than a small, low High School field. The previous comment about the band activity having more classes to provide more winners is quite correct regardless of circuit. Most circuits have done things over the last few years to allow different bands of different expereince levels, sizes, and capabilities chances to have at it in playing fields that are more or less level. particularly those of different experience levels to develop and grow and hopefully move up into the main divisions. I think that's been around in one way or another in some way, shape or form in the Corps activity as well, just not as perhaps defined, and certainly not with an ostensible purpose of "creating more winners" anywhere like the band activity. part of it is that some Band people have to justify their programs to Parents and Administration and they see things in black and white. "First Place Class 5.3 A" will shut up the Principal breathing down your neck instead of being "Eighth Place, Class 5" on Champiohship weekend, even though in both cases, the same band was the 8th best out of Class 5 out of the 20 in their circuit. I'd like to think Corps people in general are tougher and more understanding of what it takes and where they stand than having to play numerical shell games to convince people of the validity of what they're doing.

We also had the momo with the pop-up trailer hit Bus 1 when we were on the way to DCI East Prelims in '79 on the I-78/I-81 split. He was lucky he didn't kill his family or damage his Lincoln. Just crunched his pop-up trailer real good. We got there late but we still saw a lot of classic stuff. Offensive Lions with the 8 Bass Drums and the goofy Tenors, Boston when they still had their typical 25 horns and 15 drums and still rockin the house, Les Chatelaines, Blue Stars, North Star, cool stuff. Speaking of Offensive Lions- I'd think you percussion guys would appreciate this clip a friend from PQ dug up out of kindness for me. '79 Offensive Lions in Standstill playing their best known chart, "Birdland" with the insane drum section, and Earth Wind and Fire's "Fantasy"... http://www.esnips.com/doc/701ddf25-dbce-49...72-5e61332526b8 I'm happy this was up. Many people think I was seeing double when I tell them L'Offensive had 8 Basses on the field at that time. Not a bad corps from back in that day, either.

Gary, what did your brother Tom play? In theory, I should possibly know him, and I'm drawing a blank.

I'd be happy to see the T-Birds on the slate. Always good friends with Westshore, good people. Gary- if you come next year, can you teach me the lyrics to the song "Two-Ton-Tessie" you guys sang for and with us one time after a show, I think up in NY in 82? Great corps song.

Yes, Jim. I can still play that lick in Smoothie, we had to work and practice that thing that hard. And yeah, lots of fun if the rotor froze for no reason for like... the first 30 seconds of that tune. Lots of 16th note gibberish abounded. Nice piece, tho. A real Kenton classic from his final period. 82 Westshore did Winnetka with piston-rotor in the low brass, maybe even the mellos, and the 16th note run after the drum break was always a load of fun when the horn worked. It gave you a real feeling you actually did something pretty tough. We lost high horns that year by .05 to Sky, who had a full 2-valve (maybe not Contras) hornline, while were were still tootin' away on Piston rotors except for the Soprano section. We worked like beasts! Hmm, and there's another little widget of thought. Does anyone really think they'll be able to wheedle anything significant out of a Brass adjudicator by telling them they're playing on lousy and more unreliable horns and therefore deserve more credit for it? I know people would attempt to discuss that in critique and hope they got away with it. The problem is, any credit you'd get for soemthing like that would be more than lost over performance issues. Lose, don't excuse!

I played on a Piston-Rotor horn for 4 of the 6 seasons I actively competed. I can tell you it's not the way to go. One advantage they did have, at least for the larger horns, was that they were easier to hold and aim on-field. They were lighter as well, and better-balanced. But the Timbre was... well, I told people back in period it was like sticking a mouthpiece into a trash can and tootin' away. Yes- a good brass player can stick a mouthpiece into a garden hose with a funnel on the end and make something decent some out the other end, but it took a lot of work and effort to get a hornline to play with a semblance of good discipline and some kind of coherent tonal center. Certain pitches really needed to be favored to get things to come out right. Also, the rotor assemblies and linkages were cheaply built. When they worked, they work very well. Sometimes, for no expicable reason, they'll stop working. You disassemble them (preferably in a clean environment because you couldn't have one speck of dirt anywhere near the rotor in any way, shape, or form), clean them thoroughly, oil the willies out of them (they love a lot of oil), carefully reassemble them... And sometimes they'll start working again some time in the next five minutes for reasons I can't tell you. They'll stay frozen, you set it down for 5 minutes on your car trunk, and then it works fine when you try and show your friends you can't get it to work. I could see having one for fun, and for having a go at DCA I and E with it, but they're really not an answer in today's environ. The horns are better made, better centered, and a lot more reliable. I'd dread to know how much Kanstul would want for a limited production Piston-Rotor bugle in G with quality construction, REAL plating, (not chrome plating!), a proper bore and bell design, and a rotor mechanizsm that would actually work properly all the time.... Jim- you just got an Ultra-Tone! Do you concur with what I think about those goofy old Olds Ultratones? Look. I love those old horns like I love a '58 Edsel for their goofy looks and their quirks. I wouldn't mind having one in the garage for a sunny day, but not for a daily driver.

Mark, you need to be where you're happy, and where you feel you have a place- a comfort zone. Years later, that's what will matter to you most when you look back on it. When I came back to Alumni Corps over 20 years later it felt like they had a spot right where I used to have that spot and were waiting for me to get my can back in it. It was a great feeling. It does make a difference. There are some people out there who may have snagged a ring or placed really high at Finals, but I've heard the stories where they weren't happy, they really didn't fit in well, or had a pretty miserable experience. No need to be that person, ever.

Yes. Especially when he nearly slammed headlong into Bus 1 on the Tappan Zee bridge once he found out there was a topless girl in the Audi in the left lane with the open sunroof that Bus 1 was getting a pretty good look at in the meantime.

LOL! I learn something new every day! Anyhow, I don't think any amount of your favorite adult beverage would get you into a triple bass rig of death, anyhow. They're kind of like Euphonium Bugles to horn players.... too big, heavy, unwieldy cumbersome, and hard on the back.

I wanted to thank Jay for being so kind to explain all of it for us. Now- it makes perfect sense. You need a good, competent business model, you need to show you're not some kind of fly-by-night Svengali/Rasputin type of operator (we've had enough of those- they seriously arouse my ire- let's leave it at that!), and really, when I thought of it at work, let's look at what you can do with 35 people from your 10,000 person burg. Let's say... a nice guard of 8 people. (Most would hope for half this, I'd guess...) 20 horns- 2-4 Contra/4-6 Bari/4-6 Mello/ 8 Tpt/Sop... I think that's a reasonable little horn line that would be agile and capable, IF they all listen, do not overextend and try to be superheroes, and the arrangements fit the individuals like gloves) Leaving say... a front percussion ensemble of 7 to handle all that would entail. I know that no amount of Strohs and fast-talk or money will convince Jeff to carry a triple Bass rig and run like a madman/beast in my corps while playing it, even a hypothetical one. I'm not a percussion expert, but I'd think seven could cover necessary percussive duties. If not, I'll trade you one or two horns. Would that help? You could do some very creative and exciting things with a small unit like this, but it would also rely on a very well-trained group that understood their individual responsibilities and busted their humps to make it happen to carry this off. A smaller group would really be stretched to make something happen on a meaningful level outdoors. I'm buying into things now, thanks to hearing some clear explanations from thoughtful people and having some time to think carefully about it.

Don't worry. It'll hit you when it hits you, like Howie hit the arrow with the bus.

DCA only, sir. Money wasn't there, I was with a very good DCA unit at the time, and Where I wanted to go was different from where Dad wished I would've wanted to go. I still was well educated, and had a great experience over 6 years of it. Do I wish I'd have had a crack at BD, or the Bridgemen during that period of time? Sure, but really, no regrets here. We had a great corps and had some great experiences on and off the field.

The shows that are relating best to most audiences combine modern arranging, etc., yet also have a hand on the pulse of the character and sense of the corps. Some corps seem to have deliberately strayed from that rule of thumb, and it's pretty much kept them from having a lot of real success in a lot of subtle and unsubtle ways. When Madison's been in touch with themselves over the past 10 years, they have the crowd behind them, they also seem to pry out a finals spot. When Spirit last had a show that was "in character", they made finals. "I am Spartacus"... modern show, but tapped into everyone's heart, and totally Phantom. There's a pattern there.