Periphery

Thanks! Any idea when it will ship and how long it will take to arrive in Brandon, Mississippi (39047)?

Just bought the contra. Thanks and good luck to your corps! BTW – Is this a different one than the one to which the link points? That auction had ended by the time that I got to it. I wanted to get one of these baby contras so I searched eBay and found one that was listed as Buy it Now and it was one of your group's listings. The photo looks like a different horn. Is it? Or is it a re-listing of the same horn because the last buyer did not follow through? (Also, the one that I purchased does come with a case and gooseneck and functions properly, right? Just checking. I teach tuba at a local college and want to use it in a faculty recital this spring . . . I know . . . stop laughing!) Merry Christmas!!! Wade

Both kinds: Country AND Western! (sorry)

Yeah, I know exactly what you are saying. I am just meaning that I have met instructors that were not all that concerned with intonation issues after the main slide was set. They blamed their inattention to real intonation training and work on fundamental breathing and tone production on G bugles. They pushed very hard for Bb/F band instruments. These lines still do not play really well in tune with one another. (HA HA HA HA! Am I BITTER?? Nah . . . ) Also, I had just come home from my favorite local Mexican place loaded to the gills with Margaritas!

Orchestral brass do not have matching keyed instruments. Brass sections will have Bb, C, D, A, F, and Eb instruments on stage and will use whatever they need. Trumpets will frequently have two on Bb and one on C, as it is a personal preference. If a Bb part "lays better" on a C horn, for whatever reason, the player will just play C and transpose at sight. Our section does this quite a bit. Our principal trumpeter went to Juilliard at a time when the default trumpet to come out of the bag was the C, always. She might whip out the Bb on a C part once in a while. Our 2nd and 3rd guys default to Bb and use C when they need or want to. Old bass trombones were built in G and had no rotor . . . just a very long hand slide . . . and play just fine with the Bb tenors that they were built to join on stage. I play my little F bass tuba when that particular timbre is needed, not because it is a "high range" instrument. Sometimes I end up having to play it in its very uncomfortable and awkward low register for hours at a time because that is the sound that I feel is needed. (I could just use a very small CC, but do not own one.) I use Eb on occasion. My main horn is a contrabass tuba pitched in CC and is very large. I switch keys of horns back and forth all of the time. I frequently have to play in the stratosphere on my large contrabass tuba. When needed, the tenors will switch to altos (in Eb). The horns are constantly switching between the Bb and F sides of their instruments (and they are totally separate horns that happen to share a leadpipe and a bell, in case you have not had the opportunity to take one apart, which many here have not had the chance to do). On the Beatles Medley that we played on our last subscription Pops program, one tune had us playing at the same time: A piccolo trumpet D trumpet Bb trumpet Bb/high F descant horn F/Bb horn F/Bb horn F/Bb horn Eb alto trombone Bb tenor trombone Bb bass trombone CC tuba This is pretty close to normal, which is: C or Bb trumpet C or Bb trumpet Bb or C trumpet F/Bb horn F/Bb horn F/Bb horn F/Bb horn Bb tenor trombone Bb tenor trombone Bb bass trombone CC or F tuba THAT is the norm in most symphony orchestras. The fear of pitch problems from mixing keys is born of teachers that do not hear the out of tune notes on matched brasses and think that you only tune the big slide. It is a serious misnomer. Out of tune is out of tune, regardless of matched or mismatched keys. In tune is in tune. A player who is unable to play in tune in an ensemble on an odd horn that has fairly decent pitch will not be any more successful with that ensemble when given a "matched" instrument to play.

You just described my entire life, Dave.

You are not getting it. It is intentionally annoying in an attempt to be funny; it is not supposed to be anything even remotely serious. It is two (very famous) guys that are amongst the finest screamers around. They are teamed up as a fictional duo called "The Tastee Bros." whose sole goal is to make fun of every stereotypical bad lead player out there. The fact that they both normally play with a great sound and style is what makes this spoof recording so #### funny. To make it even funnier they multi-tracked themselves about ten times each. They put on a commercially available recording, overdubbed themselves onto it, and just blasted like the egotistical, tasteless screamers that ruin performances every day. The Tastee Bros. are a welcomed relief after working on freelance gigs with jerks that are actually like that. Listen to it again, with headphones on, and you will hear some very funny stuff. You obviously have good enough ears to hear the bad stuff; are they well trained enough to pick out all of the stereotypes and humor? With all of this in mind, give it another listen . . . and LAUGH AT IT!

Best advice would be to grow it and see. You will NOT get a good idea of how it really affects your playing while you have it the first time around. Rather, grow it until you are satisfied with "the look." Practice a lot over a few days. Shave it off midway through a long practice day and go back to the horn. How is it? Do not just judge by feel, either Record yourself before and after on the big shaving day and listen for any obvious problems or have a buddy sit and listen to you. This needs to be done in the exact same place under the same circumstances to be useful. Also, don't play something new while recording or playing for a friend. Play something that you know absolutely cold so that a few extra reps after the shave-off will not skew the results. My professor at UNT played with a full beard and mustache and had no real problems with it. I, on the other hand, cannot stand it. I had a mustache when I was about 20 and a goatee when I was about 27. I thought it was okay both times until I shaved it off and everything got better right away. So facial hair seemed to hurt my playing while others hardly notice it. There is not really an answer to your question . . . save for the one that you give to yourself.

One other possibility . . . HUGADA, did you, after having posted these photos here, go back and change anything at all in your pictures, such as giving the photos titles or new file names? Once a link is posted, any little change to the photo in the album will break the link and your posted photo will disappear here on DCP. I did this a whole bunch when I first started using PhotoBucket. I had to go back and replace all of my links in my posts with new ones. Then all was better. Good luck! Your photos are great and I hope to see more of them once you get this minor problem sorted. Wade *****EDIT***** HUGADA, PhotoBucket says that the album is empty . . . ?

The images might not be showing up because she has posted links to her album and the album is set to be private. In order to see them we need her user name and password. (This is a guess because my photobucket pics used to do the same thing.) HUGADA, are you using the IMG, Tag, or URL text strings for posting? IMG ought to show your photos inline without allowing access to your whole album, while URL will display hyperlinks without access to the album. Tag is for embedding and might (again, I think) allow users to look at your whole album if it is set to be "Public". Just guesses. And you are doing just fine. Thanks for sharing all of your fine photos with us!

What a sad comparison. It is like there are ghosts on that field . . .

I strongly concur about 1984 Garfield. The prelims show was better than finals by enough that some in the corps were convinced that they had lost that night until the scores were announced. (I spoke to a number of them that night and over the years.) And the greatest performance that I have ever seen live in my life was that encore after retreat. Oh. My. God. It was really eerie too; the GT stadium goobers started turning out the giant banks of flood lights after retreat, thinking that the show was over. Those things take something like 30 minutes to recycle and get back on. So about half of the lights were out during the encore, casting long shadows across the field while Garfield ran West Side Story one last time . . . It was as though every tiny slip during finals were collectively blotted out by a corps thrilled to have won but not really feeling that they deserved it, and now desperate to earn it in their own minds, judges and crowd be ######. That last performance was the most "personal" thing I have ever experienced coming from such a large group of performers. It was as though we were not even there. They did that show for themselves. It was not a post-victory "blow your ### off" type of deal. While quite intense and VERY loud, it was more like the corps was "letting go" of what was truly an amazing show. Zingali was standing about five rows behind me. (My corps, the Sky Ryders, had failed to make finals so my friends and I had purchased last-minute tickets up in the upper deck near the Side One 35 yard line. For the encore we had moved down to some vacated seats on the fifty about 45 rows up from the front.) He had a friend with him, and after we were all finished cheering and chanting EAST, EAST, EAST, we could hear him say, "Look at what you've created, George! Just look at it! They were amazing!" I felt the same way. They were amazing. 1984 was a horrible year for my corps in many ways. It is a summer that still holds a lot of pain for me, even 22 years later. But that was one really great night for DCI finals. What an experience!

No, no . . . the Ab slide, not the tuning slide or the valve slides. It is the half step slide that lets you play Eb and Ab and must work as freely as a trombone slide in order to be of any use. It has a slide stop to keep it from coming off while using it on the field. Does it work properly right now? The parts to look for to determine whether the setup is complete are: 1. Finger Ring (yours is there; it is visible in the photo) 2. Slide Stop Screw, which is like a sousaphone neck screw attached to the Ab slide just above the finger ring 3. Slide Stop Retainer Plate, which (depending on the age of the K-90) can be a thick ring at the end of the first slide tube closest to the Ab slide The K-90 has a total of four slides: the main tuning slide, the two valve slides and the Ab slide. These two photos show the Ab slide in both positions. Note that the stop screw and plate are reversed on this horn. This is a first year version. The parts were replaced with stronger stuff and reversed. The screw used to be on the first slide and the retainer plate. The screw is not on this horn in the photo, but the retainer ring is plainly visible. So, are all of the parts there on your baby (even if the slide does not function properly)? Let me know. 1982 King K-90 – First production run, owned by the San Jose Raiders Thanks for responding to my questions. I am in no hurry. If you have not sold it before you get home, please check out the slide/parts and the serial number. Talk to you later! Wade

Might seem stupid to you, but what is the serial number on the second valve casing? Can you post pics of both sides to show the condition of the plating? Does the Ab slide still work and does it have a functioning slide stop (both parts: the screw on the slide and the plate on the first slide)? I am interested, possibly . . . Thanks for your time! Wade

That 1981 BD Prelims picture was so great that I decided to clean it up a little and repost it! Cheers! Wade Blue Devils, Prelims, 1981 DCI Championships

Uh, there is a pretty good reason for that . . .

Could this be the start of the DCA-ME circuit, perhaps?

I think that this is the single most telling fact in the whole thread. DCA is in trouble if so many are willing to walk away because of this one short-sighted action. Truth be told, I am pretty certain that this is merely the proverbial back-breaking straw, that there have been many other straws previously dumped on the backs of these groups, that DCA has been near the sundering point for several years now, and that the general feeling (to certain corps) is that the purported "Northeastern Cabal" not only does not care about anyone outside of "the club" but that they are actively trying to cause damage to those not in said club. These reasons are a decent bet as to why so many seem ready to jump ship before the vote has even taken place!! In my opinion: THESE FEELINGS HAVE BEEN FESTERING UNTENDED FOR A LONG TIME.

I heavily edited the above. If you are going to respond or quote me I hope that you refreshed your page first. Sorry. Again, good drugs. Nap time!! Bye!

DCA is an office and some people, if you want to look at it that way. I do not. To me and many, many others DCA is actually made up of all of the voting and non-voting corps that compete in DCA shows. DCA is an idea, a movement if you will. The voting members make the rules and DCA (the office) provides rule enforcement and a clearing house for what the voters wish to do. Again, WE are DCA (the idea). Even non-voting members are part of DCA through association. The audience sees a bunch of corps on the field and to them that is DCA. While we all know that in reality this is not the truth, it is in its own way a sort of de facto reality. Too many here are trying to shift blame for this. WE are all taking part in this whether we vote or not merely by being a part of DCA (the idea). Therefore, if WE are all so unhappy with how things are decided for the rest of us AND an environment that squelches "inclusiveness" is coming into existence, then maybe it really is time to change things. If the NE wishes to do things this way and they have the votes then more power to them; they indeed have the votes and the power. But the hard feelings generated by such actions will split the "membership" of DCA (the idea) right down the middle. And that might be a very good thing based on the recent growth of the Senior Corps movement. I see no problems with any of this. I just want to see those accountable for the vote own up to how they voted and be honest about why things are headed the way they seem to be. This is all part of growth, people. It is normal. I just hope that our voting members, which are part of DCA (the idea) will take all of the non-voters into consideration. Otherwise, a lot of money will probably migrate to other coffers this Spring and Summer. I think that transparency and honesty are the safest policy, and any sort of exclusionary stuff is pretty stupid and 8th grade-ish. As far as having a voice audible to the Cabs et al, I have zero say in this; my voice is next to nonexistent in DCA (the organization). But I, along with many others that are not members of DCA (the organization) "Member Corps" (yet still view themselves as a part of the DCA fold) will be watching how this pans out. I will make my decisions accordingly when the DCA (the organization) voters make theirs. Again, WE ALL are a part of DCA (the idea). DCA (the organization) seems prepared to have a circuit of only ten groups to FUND an entire season of shows. That would probably be just fine, too; it would work great for them, I am sure. I am not being facetious here. If this is not what is going on right now then I am sorry for my comments. But this is what seems to be going on to those of us on the outside of that closed door. Another circuit or two would be great by my way of thinking. We are funding this entire activity out of our own pockets, folks. Daddy does not generally cough up the money and the equipment for us anymore. Keeping circuits regionalized with total fiscal and scheduling autonomy and exclusivity would sure bring down some costs. Helping developing corps in our own backyards can only make for more local competition, intense local rivalries, and local fun. Maybe what we need is several DCA-type groups that can meet informally to keep judging standards and competition rules as standardized as possible. The organizations could be totally separate but would be free to invite outside corps to compete at shows nearby, and a single, North American Championship could be held each year, the championship show being governed by a totally different body that does no other shows at all. One set of show rules and sheets, set by the championship group, used by each regional circuit, might allow for far more growth in areas where interest is strong. There would be no member corps; just a winner, finalists, and everyone else. Rules would be determined by everyone participating in the previous year's contest. New competitors would have to actually compete in this championship before having a vote. No one gets any sort of appearance fee, that being left to the regional groups. Remember, there is no "membership" and this group would only be responsible for the so-called NA Championship. Funding for such a pie-in-the-sky organization would be left up to people who care about such things and can actually do it. I cannot and do not care. I am only putting forth an idea or two, not a business plan. After the ball is rolling, maybe DCA corps could be invited to participate in this North American Championship. Then, a few weeks later, somewhere in the Northeast, "The 10" could have their little "World" Championship all on their own. And all ten could be finalists! (Just yanking a few tails, folks. Put down the flame throwers!) Let the activity grow unfettered, I say! I bet DCU could end up becoming such an umbrella group since DCA has had the opportunity to do so and has apparently balked. But I know what Lee said about a DCU and what it would be for, so maybe another group then? Can we rent out Don Pesceone's old garage for this? If this post of mine has seemed like a bunch of maybe decent ideas that are really poorly organized, chalk it up to the medicine I have been taking for the last three days . . . I am home sick! Please do not flame me. Read and consider. Then argue your points. But do not flame. This thread is turning out to be a very good place for us all to talk out some things and a flame-fest would be very counterproductive. I as yet have no firm opinion about all of this. I would be happy going to DCA-S shows in the future. I would also be happy having a Championship that falls on a date that is not a month after our schools start up (actually, now five weeks!) and excludes me totally because of this. Since this is a growing problem a new organization running a NA Championship could be lobbied to take this into consideration. DCA (the voters) seem to genuinely be unconcerned about the debilitating costs and insurmountable scheduling obstacles faced by many corps. So a change might indeed be a good thing. Oops! Time for another pill and a nap. See you all later!

Let's hope that this Think Tank comes equipped with a few large windows and a very open door.

Some people are actually interested in the whole Fair Play concept. They just want to participate and have a good time. And some people just want to win at any cost, even becoming allies with traditional enemies in order to secure their personal interests by manipulating the rules to favor themselves or their situations. This sort of personality honestly believes "Only suckers follow the rules." In their world, real winners have the rules tailored to suit their needs. They do not follow the rules; the rules follow them. Many people just like to play a few hands of Gin or Canasta or Draw Poker. It is a stimulating mental exercise that is quite challenging and can aid in the creation of new friendships. It can even be a fun way to win a few bucks. And then some people just enjoy cheating at cards . . . So with whom do you wish to compete and socialize? Let us start up a new organization. *****Edited for spelling and to add a few things.*****

The King K-90 was first used in competition by the Hutchinson Sky Ryders. We had a big part in their development and owned the eight prototype horns (no serial numbers and no "KING K-90" logo on the bell). These took the field in 1981. The first production run was purchased by the Blue Devils and the San Jose Raiders in 1982. There were other corps that had them in 1982, but most corps that had the early version of this horn got them in 1983 or 1984. By that time they were popping up everywhere. Great horns! I played prototype #6, which was about three inches longer than the production model and played like a dream in all registers and had great intonation as well. Heh, heh, heh . . . Just to clear things up a bit . . . Wade

I phoned you regarding one of the K-90s (without a serial number). Please hold this particular horn for me until you are able to phone me back. I am also possibly interested in another one of the K-90s (any of them) and the K-80 euphonium. I shall await your return call, and thanks very much! Wade

Thanks to both of you (and to some that have sent me PMs regarding this topic). I had noticed that my Ab slide would no longer be needed with the addition of a third piston. So I was planning to shorten it on the top and move the whole tuning slide assembly forward a bit to improve balance. It is good to see that someone else did this and that it worked out okay. If space permits, I plan on keeping the shortened Ab slide and using it as a trigger like the Tune Any Note feature. I have done things like this to my orchestra and quintet tubas with some very nice improvements made to both horns. So the contra will just be a bit of a puzzle because of the limited space and placement of the left hand, and of course, balance. We shall see . . . I am excited about using this horn at I&E next year! I have found that using my King to warm up on prior to MSO rehearsals and performances has made playing my CC Alexander really easy. I now warm up on the K-90 prior to every service with the symphony. I have also started using some of our hornline warmup material on the Alex when I get to the hall.