Dave

Blue Stars are historically known for taking on difficult shows and cleaning the #### out of them, so this seems right in line with the corps' tendencies.

You better not be trying to equate Malaga with Betty White, Boo.

The System Blue is a completely new horn design, while the Ultimate contra started out as a repurposing of the King 2341 body. The SB contra has its design roots in horns like the Kanstul and the big Dynasty, in that it's got the length necessary for good balance and good weight distribution, it's solid without being just absurdly heavy, and it's good the sort of throat to bell flare ratio that makes for a good dark sound and good projection. As for price, I'd have to check that but it's not as set in stone on these because of the way C/S is doing the pricing. The SB line is also only available through a specific dealer in each region--my work, for example, is the dealer down here--rather than it being available through anyone who deals in C/S products.

They're not really comparable. The Yamaha is a lighter-weight horn, but the Jupiter (and the Kanstul) are heavy-duty contras. The Jupiter plays all right, intonation is fine and the tone is all fine. The downside is that Jupiter isn't using as high a quality of brass as Kanstul, and they try to make up for it with extra bracing and soldering. The result is the same problem the early King Ultimate contras had: bad balance and more broken braces. You can solder all day long but if what's being braced isn't up to par, it's going to break. So I guess my point is, if money is your bottom line, you'll be okay with it, but just as important to think about is quality and the related issue of repair costs. Is it worth the money you'll be putting into it in the long run? That's the real question.

List price, yes. Actual sale price is more like $6,000.

Not really. The Kanstul Grande model runs in the $6000 range, actually very reasonable for a horn like that. Kanstul doesn't give away any product or do package deals, that's the reason they haven't established a bigger footprint in the drum corps world, and they aren't associated with a line of percussion equipment, so you can't be cool and have the same stamp on all your equipment. The Dynasty 4v contra lists at over $11,000, though no one really pays list price.

The Kanstul it's cloned from is a much better contra.

While it's certainly nice to want to give them a chance, given this kid's track record, I think that steering clear of this or at least insisting on a good deal more openness is perfectly reasonable. Especially if he's asking people to hand him a bunch of cash.

It's kind of like being able to pat your head and rub your stomach at the same time: you're trying to do two related but different things at once and it takes a bit to train your brain to coordinate them. But as in the case of those two actions, once you've done it, you're usually left asking yourself why you took the time. It's also a lot harder on smaller mouthpieces than it is on larger ones, for whatever reason.

Already a thread here

Absolutely. I'd love to hear some real powerful shows like that performed with the level of execution of today. The only question is, would they let the horns get to that edgy power that made those old shows so hair-raisingly cool? I would hope so.

Moving to DCA forum.

In general, that's true; it depends what it is. King/Conn-Selmer will sell their Ultimate line through any authorized dealer, but they will only sell the System Blue line through a certain dealer in each region; my company, for example, is the dealer for our region. They're doing that to try to protect the dealer/manufacturer relationship and it's the reason for things like MAP and MSRP pricing.

The System Blue "hybrid" is akin to the Kanstul baritone grande--it's not the ungainly beast most marching euphs are, but it has a bigger bore than the standard marching baritone. It's a good horn, though a bit harder to get ahold of because Conn-Selmer only deals them regionally through specific dealers, unlike the ultimate line.

http://www.brookmays.com/prod_disp.asp?itemnum=700020 Code 0163 for free shipping.

The company's based here, but manufacturing happens overseas. Not sure about their percussion, I know that they were doing brass manufacturing at the Weril plant in Brazil but I think it's moved since then. Ludwig is American-based and, last I heard, made in North Carolina. The problem is that manufacturing costs in the US have gone up significantly--not just payroll, but the overall cost of doing business makes manufacturing anything difficult to turn a profit in.

Actually, Ludwig's drums are made in the US at their North Carolina plant, at least the last time I spoke with Al a few months ago. What do you base the questionable quality assertion on? I'm just asking because a lot of people say that about brands based on experiences from years past but without familiarity with current offerings.

Have you tried contacting a Conn-Selmer dealer? Ludwig is not its own company, it's the brand Conn-Selmer sells its marching percussion under. I've been dealing with them for several years now and never had any trouble finding availability on instruments or parts when I needed to. As for Premier, the American distributor is called MarchingUSA. I would try contacting them.

http://www.brookmays.com/prod_disp.asp?itemnum=3435 In stock to ship right now, use promo code 0163 for free shipping.

Jupiter and Dynasty make 4 valve sousaphones, but I don't know much about the quality. I don't think sousaphones really need 4 valves but some people consider that an important feature. The Conn 20K is of course the standard, and the King sousaphone is a good one too; the Conn is the larger of the two horns. When we went out to the Elkhart plan we talked to them about ideas for a System Blue 4 valve sousaphhone, which I think would be a great instrument if it's of the quality of the other SB horns.

Any wear on the valve?

Yes I did, and I'm glad I did, for a lot of reasons. Immediate reasons are of course that I got to age out undefeated and with a championship, but that year had plenty of its own hardships that imparted a lot of important lessons to me about enduring tough times, and they have been immensely useful to me. All in all, I can't imagine not having finished out my corps career the way I did.

I'm not as familiar with the 200s, the 300s are standard student models around here. Could you post pictures of what's happening?

They're "cracking?" You mean the horn is physically falling apart in some way? Are these TR300s or Strads, or some other model? If they're Strads made during the strike years, yeah, there are some hit or miss horns from that time, but they have moved far beyond that with their current manufacturing setup. These days they are much, much more consistent and they're also able to fill orders in a much more timely manner than ever before. Jupiter has gotten better, but its chief problem continues to be that they just aren't using as high a quality of material as other manufacturers. They try to make up for it by increasing the bracing and strength of solder points, but that only goes so far; they continue to have a reputation for not being durable in the long term. Are you guys trying to buy student-model horns or something else?

It's Sturgeon's Axiom. "90% of everything is crud."