rayfallon

I think the concept of "aging out" was very fluid during the 60s and early 70s, at least on the East Coast. My brother Tom, well known to some of the mid-70s Sun people like Lenny and Marty Haring, joined the Brassmen after he left the USAF in 1972 (at the age of 23) and marched a couple of years until he joined Sun with me at the end of 1974.

I'm very sad to read about Tom's passing - I think I'm pretty much responsible for Tom's rise from non-player all the way to third baritone with Hurcs. Tom was already close to 50 when he came to the corps, I think - although his hair was still pretty blonde so maybe early 40s? At that point that was a senior citizen with Hurcs as (except for Dougie) pretty much all the big guys had moved on and we were in heavy rebuild mode. Like so many real drum corps people, Tom was undaunted by challenges like funding, membership issues, etc. - always saw the upside of everything. My son's tuba guy from Philadelphia always said that tubas were the best people in music because they are selfless (unlike snare drummers and lead trumpets to name just a couple). The lower baris at the Hurcs were very much like that as well - come to think about it most lower baris I've encountered have been those upbeat, selfless cats. You're a good man, Tom Swenson. I'm sorry to hear of your going over. Rest in Peace, or raise hell in heaven, whichever option is presented to you.

Ya know, your worship, this is one of the very few times I find myself disagreeing with you, which leads me to believe I'm wrong but follow me here - I think this one has to be on the "Build it and they will come" Kevin Costner/Darth Vader's voice school of thought. I don't think the Staten Island Thunderbirds reached out to many of us - it was the thrill of getting up on a stage, mano a mano, or in our case lippo a lippo. I think the important part is for us to build a solid, thriving entity and hope that kids will hear about it and try it out. I'm trying to get my daughter in from Crossmen to some of the shows this winter, which is tough with their camp schedule and her distance from the East Coast, but I still think that most of what we need is to build it, and see how it floats. At some point maybe we figure out a secondary approach - maybe you, Donny, Chez, the folks that still have a hand or two in the game can influence some kids. All we can do is try. Now I have to go figure out why I'm wrong... I must be... unless you were just kidding.

Be careful that no in-flight fights break out due to someone reclining into someone else; get the baritone section into first class and the mellos into business - screw the trumpets - leave 'em in coach. Be good to the flight attendants or you'll end up diverted to Bangor Maine - you don't have any music picked out for that. BTW the food is gonna suck... it's airline stuff... And keep the flight out of Russia and a good part of Asia - things aren't going well over there these days.

All the more reason that the BHoF I&E shows are so important - there's an entire mythology that has come out of them - Gaff falling off the stage; the St Kevin's brass quartet; BSGK drum quartets, etc. etc. those were good times. Who knows what will happen in the future if these take root again?

From what my daughter tells me about camps, and from listening to the source music, I'm inclined to think that your prediction is possible, although anything is possible at this time of year. We were talking about 1992 at Camp Randall the other day, standing behind the Crossmen on retreat, and having their expected spot in finals about to be announced. When the announcer said "In 7th Place, Phantom Regiment" it felt as if a car battery had been hooked to the collective temples of the staff and corps, although the corps did a good job of maintaining their dignity. My son was out there playing tuba at 16 - I'd love to see it happen again for my daughter in her age-out year. The crowd is hushed, the announcer, after announcing Boston's score, taking his time says, "In 9th place *the best Crossmen think they could hope for in this fantasy) ... the Madison Scouts!" (fill in the corps of your choice there - this kind of thing only happens once or twice in a lifetime, but I can dream). As always it's going to be an interesting season and I hope to see more shows than I have in years.

I've always been under the impression that Riggie played FH during at least some part of the 60s, although one of you can correct me as I remember only what I was told - I've always thought that he played the fine horn solo on "I've Got You Under My Skin" We could have a subtext for "Guess Who" "Correcting Misconceptions Since 2007" There was a girl from St Rocco's that won the Brooklyn "Miss Conception" award 6 years running... then she got married when she turned 18 and was no longer eligible... but I digress...

Totally agree - anyone that knows me knows I love Gene. Can't say I've loved much about my most recent exposures to Pete, who seems very churlish, but I'll go on with my opinion that he's a serious nominee for Sunriser of the ever award. Frank would know so much more about the Sunrisers of Classical time, and you guys would know the ins and outs of the 80s and then I know nothing after 90 so I'm not going to be made Supreme Judge on this one. To circle back to Elphaba's french horn folks, clearly you're dead on - I don't think Frank Bergdoll ever lost a contest, and I heard him play when he played for St Kevins and thought he was great - I was really a kid at that point. I listened to Danny as an adult, and as a friend so my judgment is somewhat compromised - it's hard to argue about Frank, or his dad for that matter. I did hear Hy play a lot, and I heard Pepe quite a bit, in fact I might have been responsible for most of his latter day body of work with Hurcs. I think Danny was a better FH than those two guys, although Hy was a genius and Pepe the ultimate showman and a fine trumpet player. Frank knows how Sasso was on horn and Steve Buglino. I only heard them as a little kid. Oooh, and Riggie Laus, whom I only heard at the Fleetwood School of Music with Pittsburgh - can't leave him out of any FH discussion. Some might even say Arnie Juliano - I'll bow to Fish on Arnie. So I'm sticking to my opinion, regardless of how misguided, but to Elphaba, your knowledge of the activity blows me out of the water 9.9 times out of 10 and I think I'm being generous to myself. Even I'm inclined to accept your opinion over mine. Even Andy, and he's a #Q@*iing drummer, (albeit a member of the Buglers' Hall of Fame). OK, going to bed. Thanks for reading the first two lines.

How much by the way, in case I want to get in a bidding war with Brian...

OK, Gary is a good choice. The thing with Pete vs Gary - Gary was a good player and a great administrator/director. Pete literally did everything - he played at a high level - he demanded that everyone around him play at a high level - he kept it serious and intense - he also made people laugh - he was respected across the activity as a player/instructor, really whatever it took. He did it for a long time - decades, or probably 3 marriages (maybe 2?) Gary is probably the reason that the Sunrisers still exist - he shepherded them through the worst of bad years. Pete I believe is the reason the Sunrisers took a fairly mediocre team and made them burn at a blaze hotter than anyone in the history of DCA. No one has been better than the 80s Sunrisers, starting at around 1976. Most folks forget that the 1976 corps was essentially the same as the 1975 corps, with the addition of Dennis and his team. But Dennis couldn't have done it himself. The brass had to get 10X better. I remember driving to Poughkeepsie once a week in the Fall of '75 into Spring '76 with Pete working with the additions. He was the driver behind every part of the brass improvement that occurred. I'm not taking anything away from Bunyon, Screech, or even myself, but China was the sparkplug that wouldn't let you rest until we were great. I love Gary - he's a unique individual - but I think HE would probably agree that China was the straw that stirred the drink. And don't sell yourself short - you've brought incredible honor to the orange and blue team over decades with your grace and style, as Andy has to the Gabarina boys. but do me a favor, without laying out a case beforehand, ask Lenny who the greatest Sunriser of all times was... As far as best french horn - I've heard a bunch of them - including God himself - but the greatest french horn player that I ever heard was Danny Fitzpatrick. I was so thrilled to hang his Buglers' Hall of Fame medal around his neck last Spring, but conscious of the silliness that I had been inducted before he was. Life is funny sometimes.

Should I give hints? Shirley you jest! No, I'm serious, and don't call me Shirley. Quite a jolly repartee, no? They had initials of J. J. I think... Am I still in trouble?

Sorry about the rules break - I thought that one was like a softball toss to just get the juices flowing for 2015 - which it did. I'm going to sit in a corner of my living room with a pointy hat on for one hour. Pretty sure Carrie won't object - she sort of thinks I should be doing that ll the time.

I had a long discussion in 1976 about the fact that Sky had won "Best Brass" at DCA, which bothered me - might not be 76 by the way. When I got to tuning he said "They don't try to tune to a rigid 440 or anything else - they leave a very broad pitch center and always feel pretty close to on it. They don't try to play music that has a legitimate template to compare them to. You don't get to say "Man this isn't as good as the way the NY Philharmonic played 'Procession of the Nobles' or "American in Paris". They don't try to sound like the Chicago Symphony - they try to sound like the Skyliners, and this line has achieved that sound." I couldn't argue. Made my hair hurt, but I couldn't argue. I hope that the new Skyliners learn that lesson as I think they're picking shows that are going to doom them to not making finals. They need to channel Hy, and Hugh Mahon, and Eric Perriloux to figure out what pieces of music would give them the most Skyliner sound. No one's been able to do it since Hy died in '84, and the DCA needs a Skyliners the way DCI needs Madison. The previous message was completely my opinion, and does not reflect the opinions of the Sunrisers, Hurricanes, Archie, Boston, The Buglers' Hall of Fame, or the WDCHoF, or any other legitimate group with actual informed opinions from smart people, i.e. not me.

Dirt was a combination of a wonderful personality and a great showman. You could say he was a great musician because he communicated raw passion in his playing that was instantly understood by his audience, which is what music is all about. I doubt he could have played with many other ensembles, but he fit in to Sky like a (middle) finger in a glove. I liked him a lot. One of his mello-mates is of course, Pete China, the soul of the 70s and 80s Sunrisers, IMO one half of the reason for their success - his brother Dave was the other half. He willed them to success. Ruined his personal life because of his love of the corps - and the love probably frequently felt unrequited - corps don't "love back" the way they should. In my opinion, in the running for "Greatest Sunriser of All Times" which is s formidable list that included Dorritie, Murphy, Sassos three, Fran, Screech, and dozens of others. I have yet to meet anyone in my life that loved an organization or a team with such a pure, passionate love. I'm just glad it didn't kill him.

They put out a 45 rpm record in 67 - Malaguena on one side and Yesterday on the other - also unheard of - wish I still had my record collection - left them with my girlfriend (Oceanside Legionnaire) and she stored them on a radiator - ouch. I should have realized that 60s guard people didn't listen to drum corps records. She also got engaged in the 4 years I went away so - melted records and broken heart. Life in the 60s. Bunce was one of a kind - fortunately - the rumors that abounded put him in the world of Michael Jackson - know for a fact he was "dating" the drum major from Poughkeepsie Pacers (if it wasn't the Pacers it was the corps he taught in Poughkeepsie). I could include the young man's name but I don't think I need to be a name dropper in this case. That stuff probably went on in the drum corps world for decades but it was pretty much a beatable offense in New York during the late '60s.

In case I'm correct, citing the "blind squirrel finding his nuts" defense... how about this one? Doesn't this guy look like someone that escaped from the Racine Kilties, maybe institutionalized? http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread.php?707806-Ron-Crawford-of-Iceni-Marksmen OK, as you were... Back to Frank's puzzle...

Los Hombres del Rey? 1966? Robert G Bunce? Tubas don't look big enough for the WRs though, and the leglift looks a little high for the Bronx and a little low for Pete China...

OK, dah dah dah daaaaaahhhhh... First post of 2015. Now... What on Earth to talk about... Remember the time that Sky was really loud at that show in New Jersey? Or the time that Caballeros' contra player had his blouse explode after he ate an Italian grinder? J u s t t o o m u c h p r e s s u r e . . . . .

like he said...

I saw "Surf" a year or two ago - 2013 I think, and I thought they'd be a Top 6 corps in DCA - scary. My son worked with 7th Regiment from a time where they had 14 horns until last year, when they were pretty close to the size of top DCA corps. I've always wanted to see what would happen if you took a corps like that and entered them in DCA prelims. It's hard to hang with these kids. All-Age corps have some virtuoso players - Joey Pero; Frank Ponzo; the list goes on and on. But when you get down to 2nd and 3rd trumpet or baritone I think that's where the kids kill us, and honestly that's the difference in the good lines and the great lines - the balance throughout all the voices. Hy was smart enough to have great players play lower parts here and there when the voice distribution called for it - that was tough too as back in the day we were all extremely competitive about being "leads". When I returned to Sun for the 1975 season (in September '74) Teddy assigned me to 2nd baritone with Paul Williams and Theresa Conlon. I had to take a deep breath to accept the assignment - I figured out that a) I had lost some of my mojo being away for 4 years - (Duh) and b) I was going to have to do the best I could and work my balls off to get back to being a better player. I think I may have wandered off topic here, but it's the end of a very pivotal year and my brain is all over the place. First of all I hope that 2015 will be an easier year for our hostess, Ms. Nanci, who is kind and hospitable to all of us, despite our numerous flaws - certainly my numerous flaws. Nan has obviously been under a lot of stress these past months and I can only speak for myself to say that I wish I could lessen the burden, but know that I can't. Happy New Year 2015 to the Queen of Whoville. And to all my fellow Who'ers - a peaceful 2015 that finds (and keeps) you all healthy and gives you time to make music, or participate in music, or perhaps assist a younger person or persons in their desire to experience this activity that many of us helped build. 2015 - may it be 365 days long - and may we all be here to shake our heads at whatever stupid things get written on the day before 2016.

Brian - get in touch with Mike Corrigan at BACHornDoctor.com Best anywhere with brass and has a line on instruments. Former Crusader - great guy.

fortunately I had already lost 30% of my high frequency hearing by 22 from listening to 4 radios at a time on an uninsulated USAF RC135 for 30 hour missions. I was never really quite sure what Screech was playing during the 70s. Not sure that makes me unique.

I don't think I fully appreciated Deliberto until much later. But I was a kid - it wasn't my fault.

I was at Language School in Monterey CA in 1970, Fall, and went to a drum corps show up the road in Santa Clara - not sure what I was expecting. They were all great, long after Labor Day, and SCV, of whom I had only heard a couple of times prior to that show, blew me away. I went looking for them afterward and I'm walking across a field and walk into Wayne Downey in an SCV uniform. Last time I looked he was playing in Sun. We both said "What are you doing here?" at the same time. From there I disappeared to Asia for 3 years and he became the brightest star in the Western Sky, at least until Dorritie headed out in 1978. That whole West Coast thing had escaped my notice until that evening.