Mad75

You won’t get an argument to the contrary here! If your observation is correct, it only backs what I'm hearing from those in the stands that are able to look past emotion and hype. If true, I would ask the powers that be and the supposed second to none staff they've assembled..."what are they waiting for"? And, "when do they intend on upping their game and delivering the goods"?...Again, this is assuming that they adhere to the life philosophy of "seeds of greatness", and not strangled by the corporate rules of a 3, 5, 10yr improvement plan. Yes, there’s been improvement, but those “voices” that come forth to try to convince the populous to be satisfied with that improvement entirely miss my point regarding true ability and the wonderful capabilities within these men that are just waiting to be exposed.

Could be. Again, I pray that is not the case though. I'm of the belief that in life you always swing for the fences. No matter the talent, we have far more within us then what most of us believe. It usually takes visionaries and great leadership though to pull out of us the seeds of greatness that resides within all of us. Some modern day examples...The true story of math teacher Jaime Escalante regarding the absolute miracles that took place with those LA street kids as portrayed in the movie "Stand And Deliver"...The improbable odds of the 1980 Men’s US Hockey Team winning the gold medal...Legendary Horn instructor Sandra Opie winning top brass titles while instructing the Argonne Rebels with nothing more than rag-tag kids literally off the streets of Great Bend, KS. Many of those kids having never even played an instrument before in their lifetime. The common denominator...visionary leadership. The ability to get individuals to believe and perform to levels far beyond what they thought possible. And, we all have the same abilities lying dormant within. It's for this very reason that I never want to hear "we should have pushed harder or that we should have given them more to work with"! In my book, that’s pitiful, unconscionable and sends the wrong life lessons. Seeds of greatness baby! We're swinging for the fences!

Well, San Antonio has spoken! And what do we have...Cavies getting closer and closer by the day (as of tonight, they're only .05! behind the Scouts!), and it seems that distance is building between 7th and 6th (the upper echelon). Only 3 weeks from tonight, and the 20013 season will be in the books. The opinions that have been shared with me by those that have viewed the Men live is that even though their show is highly emotional, it lacks the difficulty and design required to push the Scouts to the next level. I hope this is not so, because I've heard that exact regret expressed over the past couple of years by certain Staff..."we should have given the Men more to work with". It would be sad and unconscionable if this is the conclusion once again...There's simply too little time in this activity to make up large chunks of ground.

Typical Hopkins...Why people still worship and defend this guy over and over again is truly amazing. His type has a definition, it’s called elitism and arrogance. George Hopkins, what a piece of work!...He’s the train wreck that just keeps giving. Bravo George! It would be a wonderful day if the beautiful people of the South were to bring a measure of humility to George Hopkins life. But, the fact is that most folks in the South are simply too nice and accommodating and won’t waste their time on a sub-species like George. Shame George…Shame.

Fair enough, please forgive me, for there was no ill will intended. I was simply attempting to draw attention (which didn’t seem to be working) to the stark differences and facts between our statements. Again, there is much we can all learn from each other and I appreciate you pointing that out.

That's the point...Argue about what? I don’t want you to walk away, I'd much rather have a conversation among friends. One based upon fact and viewpoint, not hyperbole or emotion. I simply expressed my opinion several pages back regarding my disagreement with DCI's system of "drawing" ones appearance time at regional shows. I believe it's highly illogical and potentially damaging, and I would argue that fact on behalf of any drum corps...It's simply too important. My comments (if you'd read them) had nothing to say about (as you and others have somehow disseminated) "Madison always gets screwed"..."It's the judges!"...OR, "It's a mutual Hate Madison Conspiracy going on out there"! Nope, my comments were nothing of the sort. But how you, and the white russian got there is the question. That said, I do agree that there is some major Madison, illogic blind honkism that goes on here. I would say, see it for what it is and move on. Furthermore, be careful of characterizing along with Mr. multiple white russians those from "different" era’s or making knee-jerk assessments. There might be insight and perspective from an historical perspective that brings a fair degree of relevance and weight to the conversation. Also, it's very dangerous to project thought or motivation upon another individual. The challenge in this venue is that you have no idea who I am or what's in my heart. Again, I'd rather that you stay and let us reason and dialogue together as friends (Russian dude, that goes for you as well). I have a lot to learn from those who have come after me and I respect and value your perspective. Sincerely,

Meanwhile back at the ranch, it's clear that reading/comprehension/logical evaluations are not your strengths. 1st, work on your skills of having a difference of opinion within the same topic or argument...You'll then gain relevance and possible respect. Right now, you're simply declaring statements into a cavern...Who or what are you even referring to? Otherwise, it appears as if you're (along with some of your friends here) flailing spaghetti against the wall.

Yes, thank you for the clarification...It makes total sense as to what's going on. Yup I can see it now, that was the crank talking!

WOW! And here I thought your compadre; "Hidden Monster" was off the rails in his/her ability to comprehend what I actually wrote. But, you my friend need professional help...Strike that, you need a team of experts to quickly come to your aid. Your delusional rant and expressions of anger and hate are quite evident and deeply troubling. How you found yourself in the very deep weeds with your vile comments after I shared my opinion on DCI's "draw" system is astounding. I can only conclude several things...Either you skipped English Composition and said forget that nonsense in reading the Classics...OR, before you read my comments, you took a hit from the crack pipe in combination with multiple white russians, and vwala!, the delusional angry red eyed hater in you came to the surface! Whatever the problem(s), yours is a perfect example of why secret experimentation and high level clinical study should never be abandoned. P.S...For self-analysis and sterile white room quite time, go back and read what I wrote. Then, pause for reflection after you've read each word very carefully...Hopefully you'll come to a much different conclusion. If not, press the red button for the day nurse.

No frustration here for the reason(s) you've given...Sadly, it's quite obvious you didn’t read anything I said, because if you had followed the bouncing ball, you would have EASILY determined that I simply voiced my opinion about DCI's "draw" process...Nothing more nothing less. How you extrapolated such things as "frustration in regards to placement" is simply amazing.

I too know and can sing the words to "Kumbaya" and "We Are The World" while wearing my rose colored glasses!...Now back to planet earth Bill. My comments had nothing to do with doubting or questioning the wonderful world that is supposedly the Madison Scouts (I think I hear angels singing). I simply stated that I disagree with the illogical "draw" process that DCI has incorporated...Especially if you've worked your collective arses off to climb out of a very deep and protracted hole. It's called being rewarded for accomplishment! And my role...It's called expression of opinion. Bill, I'm quite cheerful...As a matter of fact, never better! But how you turned the corner and made the leap to la-la land propagandaville when it wasn’t necessary is quite interesting. P.S...To have a beef with "less than cheery Jerry", you would have more appropriately responded in kind to something like this..."Hey Bill, how come the Scouts only improved by .2 from their last show? What the frick is up with that? I thought you said they made all sorts of blow my mind changes and now the Cavies as of tonight in Houston are like only .2 away from the Scouts! What the frick is up with that? I guess the changes must have sucked because I see that some of the visual scores tonight were like in 5th for the Scouts! What the holy frick is up with that??? The Scouts are doomed"! There you go Bill...Your beautiful words belonged in response to an example of the aforementioned, not my comments pertaining to competition draw.

This "draw" process for regional DCI shows is a bunch of horse manure! The Scouts have been placing solidly ahead of Cavies all season, and now the Cavies "draw" to go on after the Scouts in San Antonio. Even Cavie fans are boasting that this could be "just the break "they" need" to affect the rest of their season. Slot-O-Rama late in the season could answer their very prayers by the outcome Saturday night...Let's hope not!

I live in Austin and I suppose I should make the hour or so drive to San Antone to see the Men of Madison...My dilemma though...I have such a difficult time sitting through everything else that refers to itself as drum corps now days and paying all that money to be bored beyond sanity. (Sorry, my intention is not to offend you folks who are "bandos" or are newer to the activity...from a historical standpoint, many of you simply haven’t walked in my shoes)...What to do???

One word...Electronics.

TOC in nothing more than a mutual appreciation club that needs to change its name to something appropriately reflecting who they are and/or mission.

Gary, there may be some of my brothers from 75'or others that may disagree, but I feel that Dave Scott has a valid argument. As good as we were in 75' along with winning the top horn line honors; there was something about that horn line in 74' that simply placed it on a different level. I've probably listened to recordings of both horn lines several hundred times over the years, but the recording I always gravitate to as an example of musical perfection is the 74' line. As a matter of fact, over these many years I've had people from all walks of life listen to the 74' Scouts, and everyone is truly amazed at the finesse and musicality. Most people respond by saying things like "that’s the most powerful and exciting jazz/big band type sound I've ever heard"...and then when I've ended up explaining and telling them that it's drum corps, they’ve always been absolutely astounded! The performance and sound of the 74' line was simply mesmerizing!

Gary, there may be some of my brothers from 75'or others that may disagree, but I feel that Dave Scott has a valid argument. As good as we were in 75' along with winning the top horn line honors; there was something about that horn line in 74' that simply placed it on a different level. I've probably listened to recordings of both horn lines several hundred times over the years, but the recording I always gravitate to as an example of musical perfection is the 74' line. As a matter of fact, over these many years I've had people from all walks of life listen to the 74' Scouts, and everyone is truly amazed at the fines and musicality. Most people respond by saying things like "that’s the most powerful and exciting jazz/big band type sound I've ever heard"...and then when I've ended up explaining and telling them that it's drum corps, they’ve always been absolutely astounded! The performance and sound of the 74' line was simply mesmerizing!

I'm not there, but I am sitting at my computer wearing khaki shorts and I have an un-tucked dark striped button down shirt…I’m the guy with the headset on. Plus, I could really go for a hot dog and coke right now.

Not losing heart Jim...I’m simply relying on history and the realities of the activity today. Everyone is making changes, and for the top corps, these changes are planned and very strategic...mostly laid out very early in the summer. Not saying it isn’t possible to move up, but one can easily prove that in this day and age of the activity where you have to come out so strong along with the shortened length of season and apparent pressures of slotting, it's very difficult to take large steps up on the placement ladder. And if so, you'd be better be presenting something that's an absolute game-changer. I for one would be thoroughly stunned to see Madison break into the top 6. I'm thinking more likely better than 10th, but from what I've seen and heard so far, it seems that for now, the Men of Madison haven’t been given the level of show to take things to the rarefied air of the upper echelon (top 6). Right now, I'm seeing more like 9-7...I'm open to being surprised and very wrong though!

Gary...What a show in 74'!! In 1974, Madison defined for the Drum Corps world the epitome of power and finesse! This was a show and corps that set the field and fans on fire! That horn line was unparalleled! The bar was certainly raised more than a few notches by Madison for the activity to follow the summer of 74'...What an experience! Instead of Madison relying on the confidence of the success of the entirety of the summer and the overwhelming 1st place finish in prelims in Ithaca, I believe the fatal error came down to unnecessary over analysis and fear on behalf of certain instructional staff. Instead of relying on experience and confidence and unleashing the Men in Green to perform the show of their lives, the staff got nervous and panicked at the 11th hour and focused on a "phantom" fear of visual exposure by throwing the guys a major curve ball by changing drill...by arching up straight lines. This was a recipe for disaster...GO WITH WHAT GOT YOU THERE! Because of this fatal decision, we never experienced the full potential of the finals show by the Madison Scouts that should have been left on the field that fateful night in 1974. As a side bar, I would hate to have been Mr. Linley who fell down that evening...I know that he carried that burden for many years and may still. What a heavy emotional ball and chain.

Not complaining nor worrying, just reading the tea leaves as I see it. 3 points down from Vanguard at this point of the season when slot-o-rama begins to set in probably equates to below middle of the pack. Just reporting the news...we shall see.

Madison practically 3 points down from Vanguard after 3 days of practice and changes. Short seasons call for rapid improvement. Not the promising news I was hoping for leading into Minneapolis where you'll have everyone. Looks like below middle of the packville from where I’m sitting.

Are you factoring in time for those who anticipate the beat?...Just asking.

That would be good news...But, historically it takes a few shows to feel the comfort level needed to "perform" the changes to their intended outcome. Lets hope sooner rather than later. (like tonight!)

Well...Two days off, with one clinic/practice day mixed in. Let's see if they can "perform" through the tweeks/changes, or will they take the "controled" route?