Stu

That is fine. I was just trying to show how it went in that direction.

The quest for high score on GE, the competitive aspect, seems to be driving the bus which is creating situations of perceived dangers of things like 3-D staging and acrobatics on stages. What the discussion also entails is a question concerning if a corps fails to utilize modern progressive design, instrumentation, etc, will they score just as well. That is also relevant to how much of a push will continue in moving into more percieved dangerous activity.

How I arrived here is the claim that equal value would be palced upon a plan B performance which would not contain one or more of current trends such as 3-D staging. It is still within the rules for a corps to go completely accoustic without electronics, for a corps to use G bugles ( which can be played extremely well in tune), for a corps to design complex drill instead of 3-D prop staging. But there is a part of your response which actually indicates that if a show design is missing elements, as in not pushing the progressive design trends adjudicators are seeking, it will not score well; no matter the quality of the performance. Which flys in the face of thinking plan B could score as high if performed with the same quality. However..... The key in your response is that it is based on what the corps desire. I have a gut feeling that if the design staff of a high caliber mover and shaker corps like BD, for instance, decided that retro was in vogue, that retro was the new progressive direction, retro G sound was needed, retro whiplahsh drill was required, retro raw power, retro no gimmicks, that the retro sound and look would become the design elements standards interpreted as being desirable.

Equal value. Hmmm. That, of course, is defined by the judges. Ok. Here in 2019, would the sound of high quality three-valve G bugles be considered as equal in value to Bb bugles if they were played by the exact same performers? Would a show design consistiing of complex drill and body sculpture be considered as equal in value in design as modern staging with props if performed by the same performers? Or is the adjudication now skewed to prefering the Bb sound over the G, and staging over drill, in the name of progression, thus they would not be considered equal in value? Are you sure everything in the subjective world of adjudication is really equal?

Let's make sure you are sure.Take away the props from Bluecoats in 2016, Blue Devils in 2017, SCV in 2018, have them do the same or similar things on the ground with the same quality, and they still win with the same scoring; are you 'sure'?

This should also be the case if plan B is actually plan A. Correct?

It would be hilarious and ironic to see members of BD dressed in country garb singing: "Gloom, despair, and agony on me. Deep, dark depression, excessive misery. If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all. Gloom, despair, and agony on me."

Many have no real clue as to how accomplished Roy Clark really was at guitar:

So, if I am understading you correctly, plan B, so to speak, should be able to receive the same score as plan A, even if plan B does not use the added show of choice elements of plan A. Correct?

It should be a given that in a marching music ensemble you may get injured on a sudden direction change, a flag or other tossed implement hit; or something from a repetitive instrument performance. It should also be a given that in a modern DCI BOA acrobatic circus type show you may get injured while spinning in a gyroscope after bouncing on a highwire then rolling down a ramp into a box made to break apart upon impact which in turn releases simulated dry-ice fog.

(See bold and place this in context where you said safer) Again this goes back to my original question. If scoring can be just as high without them, then why spend the extra money, time, logistics, etc to have them in the first place?

Which goes back to my original question. If scoring can be just as high without them, then why spend the extra money, time, logistics, etc to have them in the first place?

Ok, then to me there is a problem with the scoring system. Here is the reasoning: If it is deemed by DCI that the weather and field conditions are too bad to compete, then the competition should be canceled; safety takes precident. However... If DCI deems the conditions are good enough to compete, then compete. And at that point if the individual corps staff deem that the conditions are so bad that their own props and or electronics, which are integral to their show design, should not be used, then tough, a knock in GE is warrented. Why? Everyone wants safety, that is true. But everyone should also know DCI will on ocassion say the conditions are safe enough to compete when conditions are not 100% ideal; yet it was the corps design staff who chose to add in items which cannot be safely used apart from 100% ideal conditions. Thus loss in points should go along with that risk if the competion is held and design items are not utilized; that is on the design staff; at least it should be imo.

You did not really answer the question. If the use of the ramps, or lack of use, does not impact the score then why use them at all? If it does not impact scoring the show would be just as seriously great, as you put it, with or without the use of the ramps.

If one claims that failing to use the ramps 'does not detract from scoring' at all, that conversely means using them 'does not add to scoring' at all. Which begs the question: why have the ramps in the show at all? Serious question.

Yes, please, let this be a yes!

The info in the original post, yes it is a real thing. It comes from a BD press release. But feel free to join in the subsiquent posting humor!

Must have Buck Owens Red White and Blue Guitar.

2019 Blue Devils Guitar Player Position Requirements - Strong and experienced in a variety of styles, but especially those on an acoustic guitar - including, but not limited to; classical, rock, flamenco, and folk. Any additional percussion or keyboard experience is a plus, but not required. Must be DCI-eligible and have no outstanding debts to other DCI organizations. Must be available for April camp (26-28) and from Memorial Day weekend on. Video auditions should be 2-4 minutes, demonstrating a variety of different styles on both acoustic and electric guitar (especially strumming styles at different tempi on an acoustic guitar)

For me: 1) Looks that way but not sure. 2) Forget about VF/Zildjian and other big kahunas, look outside the box and try to get what sponsors they can secure, focus on facilitating shows.

If the directors of corps are also board members of DCI and do something in the name of DCI, they take responsiblity, but their corps should be protected. If a director does something in the name of their own corps, then that individual takes responsibility but DCI and the other corps should be protected.

The corps run and control DCI, but DCI does not run ir control the corps. Make sense now?

All co-ops, non-profits, etc should have indemnify protections which insulate the members who are acting on their own accord and not acting for the organization from any bad action by the organization or other members; and indemnify protections should also exist to insulate the organization from the actions of members.

There are instences over the years where internal rules, regulations, and bylaws have changed. However, last time I checked, according to legal documents, NCAA is still independent and DCI is still a Cooprative.

The corps directors in 1972 created and chartered DCI for the direct intent purpose of member corps to oversee, manage, and control; not for DCI to oversee, manage, and control the corps; DCI is not seperate from them with just a board consisting of corps directors; it is not merely an independent sanctioning body like the NCAA; nope; in essence DCI is the puppet and the member corps control the strings. That is a far cry from the NCAA, no matter what board goverence structure NCAA has. And that, agian, is my point. Does that clear up any confusion?