EllmerFUDD

Come on lance, You need to pick one

You make some great points

Much debate has occurred surrounding the “state of drum corps”. The debate has further developed into the current state of drum corps vs “some other” time period. Much of what has been written or suggested is that if drum corps would change what they are (creatively) doing and go back to an earlier "style/approach" drum corps would be better, it would start growing again and we the drum corps fan would enjoy it more. This discussion has led me to the following question: When exactly was drum corps at its creative best?

Having multiple degrees and teaching collage has nothing do to with artistic taste. Didn’t you learn anything in collage? Perhaps you are technically trained to some degree regarding the nuts and bolts however that in no way “certifies” your taste. Please get of that high horse and give us a break Because you hang out with “Friends” that all agree with you just means you have boring friends. The truth is, your old, you losing your hearing, and you think designers should write for your taste. How F&*^ing arrogant. If drum corps is no longer good for you, find something else to do. You and others like you will NEVER have any real impact on where the activity goes. NEVER. It aint gonna happen and you should save yourself the frustration. You and the other “Drum Corps is Falling crowd” need to wake up, look around and find some other activity that NEVR changes. Maybe you could join one of those groups that reenact the civil war every weekend end. If you haven’t noticed many many many fans are digging what is going on. They tend to be younger and are more important to Drum Corps. They will be around much longer that the sad old farts that marched in the 60 and 70”s. Let the members do there thing. Corps today are 3 times as talented as when you marched (if you marched). The things that are happening on the field today would have been considered impossible back in the day. Are all the shows artistically outstanding NO they were not all outstanding 20 or 30 years ago. The designers come up with the music program and concept, teach it clean it and improve it. Do they always create a Rembrandt, No but that’s art. There is and have been (too many to mention) programs that have been artistically outstanding but you are too busy #####ing to notice. You may be educated however you mind is shut to anything new that doest fit your narrow definition (understanding) of art. Enjoy your civil war reenactment weekend. Drum Corps will be just fine

Devils wim in June and July because thery are almost always cleaner and because they are cleaner the members are more ready to “sell” the program. They simply have higher confidence early in the year. This is due the organizations approach, proven processes, teaching execution, staff and a method that has been very refined. The Devils often win in August because 1) they are good 2) the momentum they built in June and July (winning early helps a great deal with Aug Scoring) and 3) the fact the Drum Corps judging is not an analytical science. Its not like a basketball or football where a clear winner can be identified (At least most of the time) Drum Corps is like figure skating except there are 150 skaters on the ice at one time. This is not to say that often the Devils may be the “best” and should be ranked first. Just not as consistently has they have been. Getting ###### about placement is beyond a waste of time. It is what it is and until somebody generates some software to replace a mixed bag of human judges, we have what we have. BD has set them self’s apart in terms of a winning formula. Perhaps some yeas they were # 2 or 3 and not # 1 but I cant remember a year when anyone would argue they should not have been in the top 3. Not too many other Corps (if any) can say that. I personally think BD could do more from a musical point of few and they should reach further. I think they could significantly increase the emotional & artistic content of there show, But that’s just me and my taste. Any one who thinks Drum Corps judging can be fair, 100% accurate and analytical is not accepting reality. The BD’s have figured out a “formula” better than anyone else and this formula wins. Are they actually the best in August every year? Hell no. and does this suck? Hell yes. But that my friends is Drum Corps. All the other BS you point out about it’s Not education. Not self-discovery. Not camaraderie. Just performance. Is just plain BS. To say that other top Corps don’t have the same degree of performers, swagger, attitude, aggressiveness, etc is just plain wrong.

If they do it will all be BS. Even the Yankees and Tiger loose

Dear Granny, You are correct that “taking your ball and going home” will have little effect on the direction of the activity. When it comes to suggesting the activity has lost its way, it’s no longer artistic; we should go back to starting in one in zone and finishing in the other. That is just well, a simple opinion. One that is generally held by individuals that marched or were involved 20, 30 or 40 years ago. How F%^*ing arrogant! Its all about we know best, we have better taste, I liked what we did, I don’t like what you are doing now. We “the old farts” know what is best for the activity and we want it our way and we must find away to change it. Give me a break! These discussions about changing and controlling the activity make me sick. Maybe we should all vote on what time period produced the best “style” of Drum Corps and then have DCI create new rules to mandate the content, style and type of programs. Making sure year after year after year it remained the same. It remained the way we like. Hell if we can do this the Corps can get rid of half the design staff and save a butt load of money. Maybe we can create “The Program Approval Board” from some of the artistic know-it-alls from DCP. Each Corps can submit their program for approval. That would fix it. We now what’s best. Do I like everything Drum Corps is doing? Hell No! Singing in Drum Corps…..There’s no singing in Drum Corps. Electronics? You have got to be kidding me. Oh well I guess the activity has changed, I guess the activity has evolved from when I marched. “Oh I don’t like this and I have superior taste” therefore I must change the activity. I know I will take my ball and go home. I will not spend my 87$ a year. This will do it. I and my friends will decide what is best. We will decide what is artistic and what is not. We will decide what designers design and performers will perform. Please note Granny this is not directed at specially you but the population of “we know best old farts” who for whatever reason refuse to let the current members, designers, staff and directors do what they do. They are arrogant, narrow minded and stuck in some distorted time warp. Nothing in life, NOTHING! Stays the same. Sports, Movies, Music, Food, Taxes, Clean Oceans, The Stock Market, Broadway, Education, Religion, NOTHING. If you want to change the art form, then go create your own expression. Start a Corps, get hired by a Corps, Write a drill or music book. Oh I forgot, you don’t know how, you don’t have the talent to create anything only to criticize what someone else has created. And we should listen to you?

So what does all this mean? Well, I paid $50 for myself and my girlfriend last night to see a drum corps show (we were excited to be able to walk up and buy such good seats on the 40 yard line near the top) and for the first time in my life, left a show thinking I may not come back to see another. I’ve never left a show and felt like this. I actually felt like I was owed a refund. I’ve always left wanting more, excited about the next time some close scoring groups would compete. Now? Ambivalence. The activity has become a manufactured entity shoved down our throats like so many unwanted products in the free market system. We’re told “It’s ART!” When asked why, its shouted back “BECAUSE WE SAY IT IS!” In reality we (DCI as a whole) now have a product that is cookie cutter, formulaic, uninteresting, and disconnected to its very own market/consumer. Please don’t attribute my ramblings here to me devaluing what the members of each corps are doing. I genuinely am awed by what they are physically doing on the field. The immense talent, hard work, and things that all these kids are learning through the drum corps experience are certainly commendable (for all of us who marched, we all know what we gained). It’s an amazing thing to experience. However, from a purely business perspective, I don’t think I’ll ever pay $50 again to see this product in its current form. Your product is no longer worth what you charge. I hope I’m wrong. I realize there is a counter argument to everything I’ve mentioned in this diatribe. I’ve heard them all and really haven’t heard a compelling argument to the contrary. I hope I don’t sound like angry old drum corps guy because that wasn’t what I was shooting for. Just felt like someone needed to relay some sentiments that are being rumbled rather freely at the last few shows I’ve attended, and wanted to share my own thoughts. First maybe we should ask the question who is Drum Corpst for: 1) Drum Corps is an educational opportunity for the youth. Far beyond music and marching. Drum Corps teaches integrity, effort, team work, excelling, commitment, etc. etc. etc. Drum Corps is first for the youth, the performing members. (Yes a fan base is required for the activity to survive) 2) Drum Corps is a competitive art form, creative, innovative and dynamic. This art form (as all art form) appeals to certain groups (the Fan). As with all art forms they are dynamic and change based on the artist/performers. This change affects the fan base. Some fans may not enjoy where the art form moves to while new fans may be attracted. This is no different that any other art form (Music, Movies, Dress, etc.) Although I may or may not particularly like every program in the last several years and I may think the activity was “more artistic” 35 years ago when I marched and if I ran my own corps I would do things my way but SO WHAT! This is not 35 years ago and I do not run a Drum Corps. Just because I do not think it is at its artistic best. I’ll bet many (perhaps all) of the members do. Its their time, its there artistic expression, It’s their opportunity to leave THEIR mark (Good or Bad) If you don’t enjoy Drum Corps, don’t go but don’t pretend to know what is best for the activity. Read the show reviews; read the post many many many people dig what is going on. Ask the members. It’s not about us old farts. We had our time let them have theirs! It amazes me that someone thinks they can speak for what is good art and what is bad art. My daughter loves Rap and I hate it. So what, who’s right? Art without growth and innovation is not art. When it is “directed” in a particular direction or held in the same place it becomes something less that art. Did you see Crowns show last year or better yet did you witness SCV’s magnificent portrait. Trust me the activity from an art form is just fine. If you don’t like it, check back in 10 years it will be different. Leave the art form to the designers and performers or become a Corps director and create your own vision.

You are correct, my point was far from complex. I only felt the need to post after reading a similar thred about Jeff and questioning his value relative to competition. The post was closed and I wanted to just share my perspective. As for my involvement, I marched in the corps in the early 70's I was on the boad for 3 years and yes I did make the call to Jeff. Yes I am no longer on the board (most Boards have term limits) but still follow the corps and activity. Again my involvement is not important. I just wanted to point the improved conditions ate SCV, Jeff's positive contrabution and value above Championships. Thanks for taking a positive post and finding something negative to mention. Please enjoy your day.

Really DCP is full of predictions and placement polls etc etc etc. I saw the show in vista and IMO (which means very little) they just dont have the book this year. Again just my perspective. Let me be clear I am no longer with the org. Don't tell me "No one in SCV would ..... and Very Un SCV". You would not have a clue. But once again someone misses the point. "Fielder and crew are doing a great job"

Sure she does but I think you are missing the bigger point..........

What A Difference A “Fiedler” makes? If the answer is based solely on championships then Mr. Fielder has made no difference. SCV has not yet won a title under his tenure and it is doubtful they will this year. They have basically hung out just below 3rd place If we are to use championships as the rule for judging the directors performance (or in Mr., Fielder’s case, Chief Executive Officer), then Jeff has made no measurable difference. We also need to ask ourselves if Drum Corps can objectively and analytically be judged. From my perspective you can possibly group corps in lets say 1-4, 5-7, 8 & 9 10 – 12. It is impossible to rank (judge) corps completely acutely 1-12. Last time I checked, drum corps is still judged my humans, just like the rest of us. Drum Corps is 150 performers running around on a football field for 12 minutes doing amazing things at break neck speeds. Sure human can catch all of the errors. And then there is GE. They should just rename the caption to IMO. Like the rest of us dumb humans, judges like some stuff and they don’t like other stuff. 50% of the fans last year loved the BD’s show 50% of the fans disliked it. We could make the argument that any of the top 3 should have won. Maybe they should fire Crowns director. Mr. Fielder’s role is CEO. Sure he participates in the show concept to some degree but he doesn’t write the music or the drill or teach brass or percussion. As CEO he hires a staff to develop, teach and clean the program. If we look at last years program and performance the staff completely delivered. The 2009 SCV show will go down as one of Drum Corps greatest artistic performances. I would suggest this is a much better indication of what Mr. Fielder has accomplished. Once again we must remember Jeff is the CEO and not the Corps Director. As such he has different responsibilities and should be judged beyond placement If you look at SCV prior to Mr. Fielder’s arrival it was a house of cards. The SCV staff was a revolving door. Year to year significant staff changes were made because the current staff would not put up with the chaos and BS. Why? Because no one was in charge. The organization had internal cancer. The administrative staff was in conflict and the BoD had yet to take on a professional role. The tours were far less than pleasant and the Corps financially was a far cry from where it is today. Mr. Fielder’s true role is the long term health and prosperity of the organization. His role is to make sure SCV thrives and can provide a positive Drum Corps experience for hundreds of kids for the next decade. Yes his role is also to assemble a staff that develops and teaches a program that has a competitive chance. If we look at last year’s work of art, Mr. fielder has delivered. I can only imagine what the experience the members had performing that show. At the end of day, this is what it is all about. Don’t get me wrong, I would love for SCV to be competitively back on top. I marched in the 70’s and I won national titles and yes it was great. But that was then and this is now. I set on the SCV board when things were bad, very bad and I have seen the positive, continuous improvement. I made the initial call to Jeff to start the interview process and I am so grateful he became available. Jeff, the COO and the current BoD are responsible for a miraculous turn around. SCV is healthy, VERY well run and positioned for continued growth. The members receive one of the greatest experiences in all of Drum Corps and once again producing shows that set SCV apart. Anyone who marched SCV or that matter Drum Corps should know “measuring” a Corps or a participant goes WAY beyond championships. Thanks Mr. Fielder, the entire SCV staff and BoD for all that you do.[/font]