irishbugle

I believe, sir, that you are right on the money. I wonder, if visual programs keep progressing at a fast pace as they have been these last few years, if the Cabs will have no choice but to make some key modifications to stay competitive. Then again, it's probably easier to stop global warming. Plus, I can't image what it would be like to see them wearing something different. Anyway... back on topic.

I like the change to Shakos'. It makes sense with todays visual programs to go for a sleeker, taller look, as it has been mentioned a few times. The tall black plum should work well.

The brass line needs only 1 Tuba?? Wow.

Its good. 90% better is a hell of a stretch IMO as there are plenty of other corps that sound equally as good at this point in the season but your certainly entitled to your opinion.

I did before I posted. I looked at Bucs, MBI, Hurcs, Empire, Cabs, Renegades, and Bush. The weekend schedules, give or take 2 days overall, are close to the same. Then, after you posted, I went back and looked through all those calendars and made a chart. You know what I found??... .... well for starters, I spend way too much time at work focusing on this forum. But also.... From April 1st to June 10th: Bucs: 147 rehearsal hours Empire: 143 rehearsal hours Hurcs: 142 rehearsal hours Cabs: 177 rehearsal hours MBI: 89 rehearsal hours Renegades: 106 rehearsal hours Bush: Not enough information to be even close to accurate. Now, just to be clear.... Here is how I recorded this information. I sampled each corps calender of scheduled events, including parades, performances, family days, etc. I EXCLUDED calendared rehearsal time that was section specific. Example: Corps A has percussion only one day from 9-5. I did not include that time because it was not corps wide. My definition of corps wide is all available sections; I.E Brass and Percussion together, than Brass, Percussion, and Color Guard once they start becoming included in the schedule. Similarly, days where JUST BRASS were rehearsing were not included either. In total, these exceptions only accounted for 18 hours total and for only one corps. I felt including this time was like cataloging independent rehearsal time for one corps, that could not be duplicated for the rest of the study, giving one corps a clear advantage when one does not clearly exist. I still believe my ultimate point still stands and that is that these corps are all working equally as hard. Bucs, Empire, Hurcs, and Cabs seem all in the same ball park. MBI is the only corps I saw to have weekday rehearsals but seems to operate on a different schedule design. I'm not looking to belabor this point any longer. I'd like to think I've done enough homework to back up my point but anyone reading this is certainly welcome to pick it apart further. (Lets be honest, that's why well all surf these forums...) See you on the 48...(I always liked to be the guy 2 steps off)

You're right Liz on a couple of points. First- I should clarify that I usually attend the 1st show of the season. As you mentioned, as of 04 it has been Wildwood. But previous to that I alternated between Bridgeport, Waterbury, and the random Jersey shows like South Brunswick, Bayonne, and even Redbank in 97. As for scheduling- maybe the full corps is not listed as rehearsing but I know of plenty of sections getting together on the weekends. Additionally- plenty of corps have regular scheduling starting at the end of February/ start of March. To clarify- my definition of regular scheduling is more regular than every 3rd weekend. Maybe every other weekend... 6 or more rehearsal days within a month where the full corps is meeting is still pretty good and still mirrors my ultimate point... hour for hour, these corps are rehearsing the same amount. As far as driving 5+ hours... I will go out on the limb and safely say 2 open class corps that I have a general working knowledge of have at least 50% of the membership commuting more than 5 hours round trip every weekend. Fuel and mileage don't stop once we've gotten to rehearsal right? It still cost's money to get home.

Why does the perception exist today that ONLY the Bucs come to the first show prepared? Last year being an exception, Wildwood usually sees at least three or four corps with complete shows and no more than a few holes. If not Wildwood, certainly Bridgeport. I think this perception is what is most frustrating to me. Even though all the Top 7 corps are matching each others rehearsal schedule hour for hour in the off season, there is this constant knock on the lesser 6-5 corps with this idea that those corps just simply aren't working hard enough. How should the 500+ members of those corps take that idea? When they are putting in 20+ solid hours of 100% rehearsal time EVERY weekend from February on (plus a heavy commitment to rehearsal during the week), most of which driving 5+ hours and spending $$ a weekend in a time of recession. Yes, that's Drum Corps. And that's what we all love about it. But when these other corps are working as hard as they can, pushing harder every weekend, and we simply just dismiss their ethic with a flip of our hand; "they simply aren't working hard enough", it's easy to get discouraged... especially after years of the same. Yes, there is something to be said for what you rehearse vs how long you rehearse. And part of that is show design as well... so a decent responsibility falls on the staff. But I reject the perception that the Bucs are the only corps working hard in the off season and the only corps prepared. I also reject the idea that the staff of the other corps simply are not as good or are not equally as prepared. I've been attending the first large show every year for the better part of two decades and I can tell you, in my mind, those 1st read performances are on a more even keel than we are giving credit for. Okay. Rant over. Edited since my rant needed clarification on my part.

Really? This post gets a negative mark?? Out of ALL the ridiculous posts I put on here... this one? Don't get me wrong, I don't mind... it's just.......confusing.

Agreed. There are a lot of changes going on this year. Between the infusion of new corps in open class, and most of the Top 5 corps with new staffs and new directions... this is a year I expect will change peoples perception about a lot of things in DCA.

If the judges use a score given to Kidsgrove a few years ago as a reference, I'm giving up on DCA after this season.

So two years ago when Bucs had more holes at Wildwood than other corps and had members falling on the field during the show and all corps present had complete shows.... That still justified a 5 point spread? I'm certainly not saying Bucs didnt deserve their success. Your right, they do come to Wildwood prepared. But there are some clear instances when a corps reputation sometimes carries a corps more than their actual performance.

While its not illogical to base your predictions on the very predictable past outcomes at wildwood, 100% certain is maybe to bold?? After checking out a few camps from different corps recently, some which will be at Wildwood, I predict a more competitive year, and many different outcomes along the way.....finally.

+1. I think with the infusion of Cadets2, Kidsgrove, Fusion, and other newly competitive corps, the regulars will be forced to finally shake up their programs in order to stay current.

I disagree with two of your top 5 placements. Both Kidsgrove and Cadets2 have not shown anything worthy of Top 5. Heck- Cadets2 hasn't shown anything... Last time Kidsgrove competed they were solidly out of the Top 5 by a few points. Just my opinion of course. "something needs change". What makes you think things haven't changed for those corps. Maybe they have committed to moving up and putting in the effort to do so. You think Hurcs and Cabs have been enjoying the same predictable outcome these last few years? My prediction; DCA will be heavily competitive this year and corps that have had some off years will be back in full force.

This same schedule has been in place for quite some time. Both Cabs and Bucs might have "some" advantage because of the first show, but keep in mind, those other corps are getting an extra week of rehearsal which pretty much equals out.

It shouldn't be assumed DCA wouldn't be able to negotiate a good price either. Youth organization aside, any money coming into the stadium on an otherwise off weekend is profitable as long is covers the basic costs. Regardless, I think we can all agree there are more suitable locations.. and I was the one who brought up Metlife in the first place.

I know DCA is a business, and these events are an investment. But there is more to factor than money. -Overall fan experience -Will they return? -City reaction, Support? -Overall performer experience -Will they promote the venue next year? Building takes time. It would be a shame to move on from a great venue that would grow if you only looked at one factor.

$32 x family of four = $128 for seats possibly outside the 30. Couple that with food, hotel, and travel expenses and I'm looking at almost an $800 weekend, possibly even more. Vs. Streaming prelims for a small fee at a fraction of the cost. Right now, with this economic crunch, I'm choosing option B. There is something to the seating conversation... If I know I have great seats and I didn't have to spend a fortune. That makes a difference IMO and helps justify the cost.

I'm still not sold on labor day weekend having a tremendous impact on hotels all across the country. Sure a holiday weekend is going to put some surge all around, and certainly near vacation destinations (beaches, cities) but it's not like every man, women, and child gets a hotel room labor day weekend to the point where any hotel booking is an attempt at futility. Moreover, after thinking on this discussion for a few days now, I still have trouble believing any hotel would not work with a group trying to secure all their rooms for any weekend. Sure, there may not be much negotiation of price based on the location of the hotel to a major tourist center and their typical guest patterns on that weekend, but the potential to secure the whole hotel months in advance will still get you a contract. And if the price of the rooms is reasonable to start ( say $20 per night cheaper than what we saw in Rochester) is it really a loss? As a frequent business traveler, average 8 nights a month, I can honestly say that even on the busiest of days, I have never had trouble securing multiple rooms at the place of my choosing. Add in 6 months lead time and your set. Each location will certainly present it's logistical challenges. I just do not believe hotels will be as serious of a hurdle as it is being made out to be. Just my opinion. I'll move on to another topic now. I just had to vent one last time on this. Maybe I'm really missing something.....

Commonwealth Stadium at the University of Kentucky?? Bigger stadium so it would dwarf the audience a little bit but not like a professional football stadium, but it is a great area on a great campus. http://en.wikipedia....dium_(Kentucky) UK is known for their stellar basketball program. There football program on the other hand does not draw the kind of crowds the stadium was built to handle. It is likely, DCA could pick up this stadium for a good price. It's not a terrible ride for the North East group, the South East group gets a reprieve from extensive travel, and those corps get to shave a few hours off of their travel too.

How about the Columbus Crew Stadium in Columbus, OH? Columbus is a very nice city, similar size to Rochester. The airport (CMH) will help long distance travelers. Flights from US Airways and Southwest frequent those terminals all the time. There are plenty of locations within a 30 minute drive from the stadium where a corps could house. The stadium itself IS another soccer stadium, which is a con, but at least the seating capacity is only 20,000. 8,000 of which are the home side seats which is perfect for DCA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Crew_Stadium

I hope not. Don't get me wrong, Rochester was a great host for many years. But I have to imagine there are other venues equal, if not better suited for Championship Weekend. Moreover, given the growth the circuit has sustained over the last five years, specifically with corps NOT located in the North East, it would be best to find a venue in a more central location. Maybe in the Kentucky, West Virginia, Ohio, Indiana area?

This is a good point.

The airport is 15 miles south of the stadium. There are nearly two hundred hotels between the airport and the stadium that would likely see any surge in travelers before a hotel in lets say Passaic county would. Also, I can't image any business, including the one I run, turning away any kind of opportunity like that. Regardless of who gives it to you, money is still green. I'm sure somebody can correct me if I am wrong, but why would a hotel turn away an opportunity to sell out all their rooms for a three night event just to try and sell out all their rooms to the general public. It's black and white- the more rooms that are occupied, the more money a hotel makes.... Really, what are debating anyway? The list price of those hotel rooms near the Stadium are still cheaper than the Crown Plaza and the Radisson in Rochester for that weekend, negotiating power aside.

DCA would only sell tickets for 40% of the stadium capacity for seating when you look at the layout. The away side, and endzone seating would not be utilized, as typical with most drum corps shows. 40% of the total seating capacity of 82,566 is only 33,026 seats. That is 974 seats LESS that Annapolis. Would the stadium dwarf the crowd.. yes. Would DCA sell tickets for 33,026 seats... no. Most likely half that number. So you are then talking about 40 to 40 seating in lower and mid level. Everyone has a great view, the acoustics are pretty decent, and you have all the other pro's to that area. Really, the only CON is possibly the loss of the WOW factor for the performers. 15,000 people in that stadium will look small. But if they are as focused as they should be they might not even notice.