irishbugle

I don't know Jeff. Cabs have been strongest in Visual Effect all year. They even won that caption in Wildwood. What we saw in Scranton from that Effect judge was opposite what we've seen all year. So looking at the recap last night, the effect caption went back to the way it's been all year. So Scranton was the fluke, not last night. And the spread really is that far. Although it is bigger than some other shows.

Looking at the recaps, it looks like Fusion and Cabs really threw down. That's a great number to get in the first week of August for Cabs. Really sets them up well moving forward.

Until they compete head to head, I'm not putting much stock in placements and comparative scoring. DCA panel or no DCA panel. Without their competition there, the number they receive is completely void of any comparison to the teams competing here over in the East. Its the same as comparing Bucs standings now to Cabs, when Cabs had an off weekend. The same goes for this weekend with Bucs off.

In all fairness, you did come on and attack the guy personally. You even brought his wife into the conversation. So you can't cry foul when he defends himself.

I wouldn't put much stock on who won each sub caption at any given show as it pertains to the outcome of the season. Cabs won brass in Wayne and lost by a very slight margin last night. My guess is these two groups will swap captions like this for the rest of the season as they both have competitive books. If one team goes out and has a fantastic night, and the other team is off a tiny bit, that doesn't mean their season is done in that one sub caption. I think the Percussion scores will keep the Bucs competitive all the way to the end in the same manner that the GE scores will benefit the Cabs down the stretch. As I've been saying all year, this is going to be an exciting season for the fans. I have always refrained from looking at one night of scores and saying "Well they are catching up here, or boy they opened the gap here". Each night is entirely subjective from both the judging panel, and the performers as well. I will say this though... irregardless of the team I root for, this is not the same Bucs we have seen over the last 10 years, nor is it the same Cabs. All pre-conceived notions, other than the level of professionalism, need to be tossed out the window. Each team can take any sub caption in the end, they are both at that level.

Its possible that you may not be. Remember, Cabs have a uniform change half way through, that could be throwing you off. There is a difference between Choreographed moments, and complete stationary time. In most of the "Standing still" moments throughout their program, they have some really well designed choreography that challenges the performer and adds a great deal of variety. If there are still moments in the show that are not impacting enough, I'm sure their staff and admin has a plan. Based on what they are doing so far this season and what they have achieved so far, I'm sure they know what they are doing.

Haha. Ok we'll admittedly that is a pretty good example to make your point. Must have been a bad hair day or something. But I think I've been pretty leveled headed every other time.

I'd like to think I'm pretty level headed about it most of the time. I know I certainly don't get as testy as some others on here that we know. I have been supporting the Cabs vocally more so than the other local Corps in the DCA circuit because I believe they were getting the shaft a little back in 2011 and 2012 but I don't think I ever thought they should have been a clear winner or undefeated or anything. As far as what you write, I'm usually on the same page with you so I'm surprised I had a counterpoint. Wish I could go back and re-read that. Either way, If Fusion takes over Cabs this weekend, it will be because they deserve it and have earned it. I'm not taking issue with that at all in anyone's post. I was just wondering why they though that it might happen. Pretty much asking to elaborate for a healthy discussion.

I absolutely agree. But I also know that some people do put some considerable thought into their predictions, so that's why I asked. Its all in good fun of course.

So I just want to pose this question... and I want to start off by saying that I am in no way trying to change your opinion. I completely respect a healthy conversation and I strongly encourage people to post their opinions on this forum, so please don't take this as an attack. You may be right with these predictions. I am just wondering why people think Fusion might overtake the Cabs? I'm not saying they aren't capable, or it won't happen, or anything like that. But for these predictions to be posted, obviously people think it might happen on Saturday. Is it just a gut feeling that Cabs will come out flat, or that Fusion deserves to be higher? Cabs were 2 points higher than Fusion in their last outing and 1.45 and 1.7 before that. Cabs rehearsed all last weekend where Fusion competed. If we feel that Bucs should stay on top after rehearsing the last few weeks, than that same logic should apply all the way around right? I'm not looking to sway anyone, or defend my own opinion so please don't take it that way. I'm just looking to see what the basis is here for Fusion to have a BIG jump and Cabs to lay an egg essentially. Ultimately, I'm just enjoying this conversation and want to see it go further.

There is a point during the season when show design and program success stop being fed from what was discussed in October the previous year and takes flight with reads from the Judging community. Having only one read, if they cleaned alot off of that read, they might have really hurt themselves. Or they could come out and pop a 90 and put any questions to bed on their strategy. My bigger question is, what does that do to mid-season shows if this formula works? Why not just come out in Wildwood, hit a mid season show like the Grand Prix, host your own show late season, and go to finals. 4 shows, more rehearsal time, better scores in the end. I personally am not a fan of this idea as it would all but kill off some of these great smaller shows during the season and would drive audiences away.. but if an organization is all about the W at the end of the year... this might be a formula that catches on. I hope it doesn't.

Completely respect from your coming from here, but IMO I don't agree. Cabs and Bucs were less than half a point from each other which is the closest anyone ever has been to Reading during the regular season in the last decade except for, wait for it, Cabs in 07 at the Grand Prix. Given that most reports from that show say Cabs should have won, and that Bucs had members bumping into each other on the field most of the show, I don't think anyone can say this year that their program is "On a different level", Just my humble opinion.

What I'm most interested to see is if the Bucs strategy from the last few weeks pays off or not. If they come out Saturday and 3 point the competition, well that kind of sends a message to the rest of the circuit that it's okay to take a few weeks off from contests during the season. Likewise, if they do loose their undefeated title, it reaffirms what has been said many times over, which is to be prepared by Wildwood and how each contest is valuable during the season. Fusion should have some good momentum coming from their first win last week so this show is well worth the ticket price to see the top 3 slug it out. And let's not forget Atlanta CV and where they might fall.

Having a large regional show in the mid-west or mid-south would be possible if both DCA and DCI get together and put on a combo show. I know this isn't a new concept and there are combo shows every year, but not on a large scale. DCI has the audience base. The audience base will help entice the Eastern DCA corps to the show because there should be more money for their performance and more merchandise money. But DCA and DCI need to work on this together and both step up to the plate. With such a rich connection between the two circuits as far as membership in and out, a strong partnership just makes sense. DCA really needs an overhall as far as their marketing presence and mission scope. It's no easy task what the admin has to do and I give them credit. But I think things could be done a little better. One thing I said years ago, the Tour of Champions show format is widely entertaining. As an audience member you are hit right after you leave your car with an interactive experience. Small ensembles outside the gate, drumlines battling in the first parking lot, small ensemble performances in stadium during the down time. All the DCI corps buy into this. As a "younger audience member" in the 21-40 demographic, I found this format very entertaining and had me coming back for more. Felt like more of a dinner and a show concept than just grab some popcorn, sit in the bleachers, watch some shows concept. Just my .2 cents. I think a TOC DCI/DCA regional show would be great and a nice way to entice corps to attend.

IMO, if all aspects of the two organizations follow the same path they are on for the remainder of the season then I don't think Fusion will pass the Cabs. Now there are a lot of factors there... If Cabs have two bad rehearsals and Fusion has two really good ones, its possible. The same could be said the other way, and the distance between them opens. Having seen both corps shows now I think Cabs have the higher ceiling. I would not be surprised to see them pass Bucs this coming weekend. That being said, Fusion is doing very well for themselves and should be looking at their first DCA Open Class Championship in the next 5 years if they keep on going the way they are.

I think your right with Cabs and Fusion. If anything, the gap might open just a tiny bit. I think Bush and Hurcs will be closer to 1 and 2. Maybe a 4 point difference there. Of course, we really have no idea.

So what's wrong with that? We as a fan community have been so used to almost total domination by one team for so long, it's understandable we would expect any show winner to sweep. But isn't this what we want? Having one, two, three, or even four corps slugging it out every weekend. Having Fusion winning a caption keeps them in the race. If Cabs swept everything, we'd already start with the talk of how far they would go this year. Now, we have to wait for Bridgeport and the Grand Prix to really get an idea. It's also worth noting that Cabs won both Effect areas, Brass, Vis Ensemble, and Communication. Pretty solid night regardless. I got a chance to watch all 4 competing corps that night and Fusion absolutely had a good show. Cabs on the other hand had a few issues that night. Nothing they won't fix by next week I'm sure. Cabs not executing a caption sweep is a good indication the judges are awake and that everything will have to be earned. Let's also keep in mind that the gap between Fusion and Cabs is virtually the same from the first outing so both Corps grew quite well within a week. I'm excited to see how this will all play out over the next few weeks. The Grand Prix is looking to potentially the most explosive event this year. You've really got to admire Fusion and their staff. Where this program has came from in just a few short years is very impressive. Ultimately thought I think their small hornline and younger inexperienced staff will plateau 3/4 of the way through their season. Cabs, Bucs, and C2 have a higher ceiling IMO as to where they can take their program based on what I saw. But if they do pass the Cabs, they will have earned it.

All good stuff. Thanks for your review. As Frank said, your welcome to your opinion and please don't let the other comments sway you from posting again in the future!

Actually back in the early 00's the pit was black on black. That changed to the standard White/Black after just one year though. That might be what your thinking of. But the corps proper, I believe, was always White over black. Just my $.2.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this become a dramatic storyline customers follow throughout the year. I understand and support the argument being made but as a paying customer myself it almost makes me want to come back multiple times throughout the year to see C2's progression vs seeing a program in Wildwood beginning to end and saying "ok, I'll see it again in September". Instead of only getting two tickets out of me you might get 3 or more. As for what the kids bought into... I think if they come away with a win in September than that's exactly what the kids bought into. How they got there won't matter. Honestly for a second year program if they finish in top 3 that's a win right there.

Cabs had a .65 gap at Clifton in 2007 which might be the closest yet other than MBI.

I think your reaching a little bit on this one. For starters, if a corps is that fiscally irresponsible and subjects their entire organization to financial collapse just to pick up some amplification equipment.. there are more serious issues at stake. In addition, even if amps do become allowed, I doubt they will be REQUIRED. So, if you want them, get them... if not, or you can't afford them, then don't. I know once a couple of the big guys pick them up everyone will want to jump on that train, but it's more important for an organization to stay alive then to mic the pit. As far as show sponsors not dealing with more requirements, most are already running a 110v extension cord out to the track for the judges table or in some cases, announcers table anyway. It's not a stretch at all to run another 110v cord, or to run one in the first place. Most stadiums already have power at field level for one reason or another. Things may have changed, but I thought the rules in most band circuits were "everything had to run off of 1 extension cord" so it can be done simply. Were not talking 220 or 3 phase electrical here. I think when most people think of A&E they are thinking of the full DCI setups we are seeing. Personally.. I hope DCA never gets to that point, ever. I would be ok with simple pit only amplification. Small, simple mix board already pre-set, some small microphones strategically placed, and one amp on either side of the pit. That's it. Your looking at a couple of hundred dollars and 1 power strip. Not these crazy mix boards that require a full time member to monitor during a show. That is not the place DCA needs to journey to IMO. If we get to the point where sound effects are part of a show.. I'm out.

Changing the sheets wouldnt do much IMO. There really is nothing now preventing a corps from performing two or three charts that fit their theme, and one random chart found on todays top 20 list in their show if they really wanted too. The point was that it allowed a corps two different sides. One, go out a perform one hell of a show. Then two, come forward, be laid back, and do something new, completely irrelevant to your show design. Jamming that into an 11 minute show isn't going to have the same effect. I can tell you the TOC format works. I experienced it a number of times, as have many others here. Born and raised in DCA, I always walked away from those shows going... WOW... now that was a night of fun.

I'm no fan of amplification either believe me, especially with what it has turned into today. The only area I could see it as acceptable is pit amplification only... nothing more. I also do not believe they would have any draw for membership or audience at all. Simply just another layer that is easier to appreciate. As far as the getting prep'd for the show side of things... sure it would be a change. Most corps start rehearsal at or near a show site by 9 am from what I have seen. I know some corps that squeeze every ounce of rehearsal time out of the day they can before getting the corps to the show site and dressed. It's been a valid argument by some that it's not how long you rehearse but how you rehearse. I have never bought into the need to have an 8 hour rehearsal before a show when you accomplish what you need to in 5 or 6 hours with a motivated membership and then give them more time off in between. I would also argue that having the corps at the show site an hour or two earlier than what used to be done gives them more time to rest, feed, shower, bond with their fellow members, and possibly even review what was cleaned earlier that day. I know that, compared to DCI, rehearsal hours are far more scarce in DCA, but I would argue that the overwhelmingly positive response from the fans and the engagement of the audience would more than make up for the lost hour. There can only be one winner every year, but we are all there to perform and entertain after all. As far as the "meh". I can understand where your going there and your certainly entitled to your opinion, which I respect. But the format I was suggesting wasn't so much to throw down again for the audience as it was to keep them engaged and connect with them on a different level. Most corps programs today are gearing towards what the judges want. Success is now being viewed by your placement's each week instead of audience reaction. Not only would this type of format keep the audience entertained during the down time with corps transitions, but also presents a lighter, fun side that the younger base can connect with in the audience that they might not find as the group performs their show, designed for approval by the judges.

The show format in DCA is largely based on Saturday evening performances so this usually isn't a problem unless the corps has a late Sunday rehearsal or a long travel time to return home. See Minnesota Brass in Connecticut last year. I used to come home from a Sunday rehearsal and just pass out for about 12 hours for work, it certainly takes a toll on you.