Cavfan930

How were these computed? Just wondering since I have my own spreadsheet for tracking the rankings. I average all of a corps performances, then add that to their highest score in order to make a power ranking of sorts. I think it helps present a clearer picture of where things are at right now rather than looking at the season as a whole. Because ultimately, it doesn't matter if corps A has a slightly higher average, corps B just has to beat them on finals night.

This is a question I've had for a while, and I think this is a good thread to ask. Most if not all corps that have been in DCI for a while have a certain identity. The Cavaliers are supposed to be the machine, put out crazy drill. Phantom tells a story then kills somebody. Blue Devils do all kinds of weird stuff. Etc. So here's the question: If a corps has a certain reputation for doing something particularly well, or just for usually doing it, does it hurt their score more if they don't deliver in that caption than someone else? for example, the Cavaliers. They have Gaines for so long, and their drill really became their trademark. They consistently delivered some mind bending drill over a long period of time (I'm sure not every season was super crazy, but stay with me here). Then MG leaves and they get the new drill writer. It is admittedly not much like the craziness the audience and judges expect from them. Then say there's a corps who doesn't have that reputation and their visual is, if measured perfectly objectively (Impossible, I know, but for the sake of the question) exactly on par with what the Cavaliers actually deliver. I feel like because the Cavaliers have the reputation they will score lower on visual than the other group, even though they were the same. Keep in mind we are talking about the content portion of the caption, not how well the performers did with what they had. Obviously, we hope this doesn't happen, but I feel like it can and sometimes does. Thoughts?

My first exposure to DCI was in 2010 when a friend took me to see the quarter-finals broadcast. Instantly fell in love with the Cavaliers and Mad World, loved the Crown sound, and really digged the Bluecoats as well. I was totally addicted. In 2012 for my senior trip I went with my mom and the friend who introduced me to DCI in the first place to Atlanta. We watched the Cavaliers put the dubstep ending on 15 minutes of fame. When we got to the stadium the Crossmen were in the middle of their show that year. I actually can't remember the show name but I remember the silhouettes and that they played Peter Gabriel's Washing of the Water (I think). Since they were the first corps I saw live in competition they have a special spot in my DCI memories. I am still a diehard Cavalier fan though!

Which I think has always been an injustice. As far as continuity, it's a much simpler show than XtraordinarY, but had much more to it that 15 minutes ("of shame" as I sometimes call it in my head.) I've always thought secret society could be summed up pretty quick, but since that's not what this thread is about, I shall refrain.

jjeffeory pointed one thing it's for already, but it also turns into a headstone.

When they are moving the marimbas from their first spot to the circle, the instruments turn perpendicular to the sideline. And when you look at a marimba like that it looks an awful lot like a coffin! I just about jumped out of my seat when I noticed it on Monday :)

Of course it's not "just that easy." The point of the metaphor (something I think a Crown honk would be the best ever at understanding) is the point of such a show decision is to influence the general effect score, but the effect they think they are producing is not being transmitted to the audiences and judges. If the cavaliers could've found a way to remove the cloaks on field, it would've been much flashier, and people would've loved it. Although, in the context of an induction into a secret society, it wouldn't make any sense to make such a "public" reveal of your identity. Secret Society really doesn't get enough credit IMO. The storyline flowed really well and the closer inducted the whole audience into their society. But, they just couldn't get it to work. The logistics weren't happening. Same for Crown and the instrument switch. It would be impossible to make a quick switch because the logistics of such a thing would be nigh impossible on a field that WASN'T already so cluttered by props and other instruments. The fact that the switch is during the muffler feature means that no one is really going to catch it happening either. I'm sure that placing the muffler thing there is supposed to kind of redirect audience attention away from the low brass grabbing the high brass instruments, but the misdirection is working TOO well at this point. So Crown '14 have exactly the same problem as Cavaliers '13. A gimmick that they want to work a lot better than it is, but not a lot of options for making that happen. QED the switch from low to high brass in out of this world is fundamentally the same as the removal of the cloaks in secret society. PS: I like that you have nothing to say about the brass player piano solo, really drives home the point for me :)

I missed it too, but I also don't think it's that crazy for them to do that. A lot of those kids are playing their instruments in college programs, getting degrees related to music and can get sound out of anything. Switching to another instrument in the same class is not that insane when the people doing it are at the level these kids are at. For me, it's a lot like the cavaliers taking off the cloaks last year. They just couldn't find a way to get the maximum impact from it, and at the end of the day it was just kind of gimmicky. I don't know who introduced the Crown show before they performed, but he also tried to hype the "brass player playing a piano solo." Same thing as above. Not that hard to find at least one of those musicians who happens to play the piano as well. Given the difficulty of that "solo" I could do it too and I don't play the piano at all. Once again, just gimmicky.

At this point last year, were people fans of the narration in e=mc2? I know I wasn't, and it never grew on me (like it did for some people). I think the narration here is fine as far as the content. But if you're gonna make a kid spend all summer with the corps (along with his money), just to deliver some presidential lines, let him do it from the field, with the corps. Make him run around a little bit. And if the platform at the front is going to stay (I don't mind either way) get the musicians and guard up there WAY more.

that awkward moment when people say the Cadets brought politics to the field (Which I don't agree with by the way) but BAC did it first. (yeah yeah cadets performed their show a couple days before and this was BAC's debut, get over yourselves.)

I think this definitely impacts it. If you have alumni in the theater, they're going to make noise because they know that's how it's supposed to be. And high school band kids, as we all know, are just loud in groups anyways. I've also watched the theater events in northern virginia and the last few years in Utah, and something I've noticed is that it doesn't really matter how full the theater is. At last June's event there were literally 6 of us, three pairs. And we made more noise than my theater this time around which was about half full. There should be a PSA at the beginning of the broadcast saying, "We know you aren't in the stadium, but don't be afraid to make some noise for your favorite moments as the night goes on." I think some people just aren't familiar with drum corps etiquette.

I love the Cavaliers, but dangit how did I miss that?!

My theater cheered for everything yours didn't, so I guess it depends on where we are. And I think all theater crowds are going to be much tamer, unfortunately. Just the way it is.

So the whole show is the collision of two conflicting, self-evident truths, that produces a new truth. All I'm missing (or possibly what they're missing) now is the new truth... Or maybe they just went full hipster on all of us.

DCI 2020: Dude that Kazoo solo was SICK. That guy was screamin'!

Totally late to the party, but I'm super psyched for this season. I think it's gonna be really great. I'm sure a lot of this has been said, hopefully I can contribute something. Mostly just want to get my jumbled thoughts on a great start to this season organized and out of my head :) 1. Cadets killed it, their show was about being American, not being political. Loved all the little footwork in impact sets. Very sharp, delicious even. The only bit I wasn't so fond of was the jazzy/swing portion representing 1920's America. Just not the Cadet style and they had a hard time pulling it off. Simple Gifts at the end is right on par with SCV '09 IMO. This has my stamp of approval for winning in August. Which means A LOT, OKAY? 2. Thought Crown did a great job with an average show (Yes I am in the This-is-what-they-did-last-year camp). Their members are phenomenal, but the trampolines, mufflers, extra timpani/gong stuff cost (by my RUDIMENTARY GOOGLE SEARCH DON'T QUOTE ME ON THIS) close to $10,000 and had minimal impact. The frisbees were cheap, fun, and effective. Congrats to the members, wish the design team hadn't abandoned the Crown identity in their quest to win. 3. BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I fell in love with Hymn of Axciom when they released it and I think they totally nailed it. I love that they played the whole thing too. I also love that they had a simple, to the point idea driving the show. "This music is awesome, we love it, hope you do too." Unlike Crown's props/instruments they really made great use of the triangles and tilting the field was delightful. Favorite show by far. 4. Crusaders have no direction in their show, and it's hard to see the red on their uniforms while they are playing. Which is too bad because I really think those are classy. Also, representing the communist/socialist ideas via rebellious Russian music? Seems ironic, not sure if that was actually what was going on. 5. I think the Cavaliers show is extremely entertaining. They have always been my favorite, but the past years have struggled to put their identity on the field. I think this show is helping them get back. Also. DAT MARIMBA. Did anyone notice that they kind of look of coffins too (Yes i realize that is how marimbas in general look)? Ties in pretty nice to the whole immortal/vampire thing. Really fun show. It won't win, but if they get it clean, they can beat Phantom, possibly end up in 6th? I haven't seen or heard anything about the west coast corps so I'm super unsure about that. I first heard their ballad in a music class a few years ago, and have always liked it, and my Cavies did great with it. Once again, clean up the drill, add a little more crazy cavalier movement and this will be a fan favorite on the season. 6. Madison Scouts were hoping the trombone thing would get a bigger reaction, but it really flopped. Oh well. Also, it kind of lacked big moments, but was like, always driving towards one. One last thought on this show, it almost felt kind of desperate to me. But maybe I'm just weird. 7. Phantom was great musically, but the show lacked the big beautiful moments that I have come to expect from them. I thought the closer was a class act though. Really enjoyed that. Gotta love it when PR kills somebody. I close. Edit: Some thoughts after glancing over recap... So in the broadcast as the dudes in the box walked us through the general recap, they said the bluecoats won percussion. Just want to point out that they actually tied with the cavaliers in that caption. Go cavies! Also, I think the gap between bloo and PR should be bigger than the gap between PR and the Cavies (Cavaliers and Phantom were closer in quality than phantom and bluecoats were). Thoughts?

well I was hoping that would be more useful, but thanks!

Been off DCP for a while, but I saw this... http://www.dci.org/news/view.cfm?news_id=a172382f-8e12-4d9f-a807-096078c34c77 ...back when DCI first put it up. Can someone direct me to the forum on here where it was no doubt discussed into oblivion? Thanks!

I intended my last post to be my last here before leaving, but: First off, being rude doesn't help anyone's point and that kind of aggressive language is ill-fitting of these forums and the kind of discussion people are trying to have here. I realize there are plenty of people here who have strong feelings about my church, but using that in thinly veiled insults about my personal character is simply childish and shows that you've got "baggage" of your own. Second, I spent all summer trying to understand Crown's show. I literally thought about it every day and watched it several times a week. I did, contrary to popular belief, try to like it. Third, I'm not going to listen to 4 hours of esoteric opera just to understand a 13 minute DC show. I shouldn't have to. For more on that opinion, see most of Stu's recent comments.

I know this thread is pretty much dead, but here's some closing notes from me, the OP: 1. I apologize for using such strong language from the get go. I encouraged other users to be aggressive and somewhat hurtful in their comments here, and I'm sorry that I did that. 2. I use strong language when I'm defending my opinions because that's how I was always taught to do it. I also avoid saying something is an opinion at all costs, for several reasons. First of all, it weakens an argument from the get go. Secondly, if I'm writing it, it's already my opinion and saying so is therefore repetitive. One of my favorite teachers in high school never let us say I think, I believe, or in my opinion. Those were cardinals sins in that class, and following those rules has made me a better writer. 3. That being said, everything I posted here is in fact my opinion. All of us have them, all of us want them heard. That's why we come to DCP. 4. On both sides of this argument (and in some other threads) I've noticed a disturbing trend where people write off people who are simply expressing themselves as complaining. I don't know if they do this because they don't want to listen to what the other user has to say or what, but it's kind of a silly thing to say on a forum that really only exists as long as there are things for us to argue about. If we all came on here and said, "Such and such was really cool" and "Yes I agree" then these forums would be deserted except for the occasional posting of DCI news. So I plead with everyone, avoid telling other people to stop expressing their thoughts and feelings about whatever subject is in the thread. Strive to understand. 5. Each time I replied to a critique of my comments on this thread, I tried very hard to ensure that my comments were clarifying my position, not attacking others or shoving my opinion down other people's throats. In the same class from #2 I was always taught to debate in the affirmative, not the negative. Good debate depends on people offering support for their side, not pointing out weaknesses in the other. 6. I violate #5 on a daily basis. It is my greatest weakness when talking to people, when writing, when everything. 7. Getting more involved in DCP has shown me that there are people out there that believe that opposite of me, just as strongly as I do. And that's fantastic. Hopefully we can all learn together, and maybe find one or two things we can agree on. Thank you to those who helped me understand e=mc^2 a little better. And while my opinion of the show hasn't changed, I am grateful to you for being patient with me while I continue to learn about DCI and the marching arts writ large. (Especially kcbari (?), Michael Boo, and charlie1223)

It is rarely necessary to die for a loved one, and until you've been in that position, how can you say you are prepared to do it? And isn't part of being in love doing everything you can to live for the person you love?

Bailey, Abby, Michela, Brittany, and Rebecca. Four of them tore out my heart, but the fifth might be the girl I marry.

You have to understand where I was coming from when I first saw this show. 1. As a mathematician and someone who dabbles in physics. 2. As someone who strongly believes in science and its processes. 3. As someone who also strongly believes that our number system, and therefore all science, is inherently broken. 4. Not someone expecting the poem, or the counting. 5. As someone who has used math and physics to escape my own mind. 6. As someone who REALLY wanted to see a stone obelisk at center field during the opener. In my mind, would've been a better prop than the bench. But I digress. And then I saw the show. And I honestly felt that somehow it was fighting against me. That it was saying in everything up to the ballad/poem, "Look 1 at 2 all 3 this 4 stuff 5 science 6 has 7 done 8." And just like they do in that sentence, the numbers got in the way for me. By using the counting from EOTB, they turned something I used to do as a form of relaxation (math in general, not just counting) into something extremely annoying. Then the ballad comes and suddenly we're talking about two lovers on a park bench that are so desperately relationship dependant that one even says they can't live without the other. That isn't love, it's obsession, and it's unhealthy. And while I appreciate the sentiment that true love can't be quantified, that isn't what science is about. So now I have this show that was celebrating science, and then fires one at me that says, "But here's love, who can't be tamed by your instruments of quantification, science. Take THAT!" And yes, that isn't what most people got out of it. Pretty much everyone managed to keep the science and the love separate in their heads during the show. But just because I couldn't/refuse do that, you guys can't say I don't have the right to be offended. Yes, it's just drum corps. Yes, it pleased everyone else, so I should just get over myself. However, I will not sit here and let you guys say I can't be offended by it. This show, for me and only ME, was an assault on my beliefs, coping mechanisms, and the things I personally love. I'm not saying it's that way for everyone. I'm certainly not saying that the show was designed that way. I'm not saying that I'm the one with any answers. I came here because I have none. And if people insist on attacking my word choice, and if people insist that I'm the one with something missing, then I'm going to insist that this thread be closed to commenters, if not erased altogether. I didn't utilize an ad hominem argument, and I expect everyone here to do the same. An earlier commenter said that Crown's design team didn't have a specific message, and wanted to see what everyone would get out of the show for themselves. So while I believe that that is a top notch cop-out to designing something coherent, people need to respect that I was in fact offended by the show and because of the way it was designed, one could argue that was always a potential outcome.

To answer your question: Read your own signature. And I don't mean to sound complaining. Like I said in the beginning, I came here for better understanding because it was clear to me that I was missing something somewhere.

I never said any of that. I never said that DCI is trying to drive off poorer people. I am well aware that there are scholarships, and other programs available through most if not all corps to help anyone who qualifies, participate. I'm already planning on fully funding at least one student in The Cavaliers every year once I've achieved that kind of financial stability.