RichCranford82

Ok, I have to ask, what exactly is it about the addition of woodwinds that changes the definition of the experience you're looking for? You say that it's about the experience, not G Bugles, right? Couldn't you as easily say that it's about the experience, not woodwinds?

LOL!!! I was looking at some old shots of '82 the other day and I gotta tell ya, you do look pretty lonely up there with only DM's Mike and Christine to keep you company! I love ya buddy, but really, don't take this so hard, it's not like we haven't had plenty of time to prepare, I think we knew even when we marched this was something you had to see as inevitable. I'll never forget my Dad when he saw the Bridgemen for the first time in 1980. He had marched with a Corps back in the early '60's and didn't really keep up with it after marching a couple of years, other than seeing the Cabs in the 4th of July parade in Ridgewood every year. Had the best seats in the house for those parades by the way, Dad was Postmaster and we all used to set up shop on the roof, still get goosebumps remembering the first time seeing Hawthorne come down the street - talk about power and excitement Anyway, when I expressed an interest in learning how to drum it was my Dad who suggested Drum Corps, so I started with the Paramus Mounties (there's a name from the past!) in '80, discovered DCI and was blown away to say the least. Dad loved just about everything he saw and heard as well, with one exception - you guessed it, the Bridgemen. "This isn't Drum Corps!" was the exact quote I heard more than I cared to and I remember thinking 2 things at the time - well, you're not marching anymore so what do you care and secondly that I wondered when I would get to that point of saying the same thing. Well, I'm here to tell you I'm just happy it took this long, 28 years is a heck of a run and like I've said many times before thank God for CD's!! Oh, and a funny thing happened with my Dad concerning the Bridgemen - they turned out to be his favorite Corps, once he accepted the fact that it was a far cry from the button-down military style he had come to know and figured if it was all going to be a big "show", you might as well go all out. Singing into a microphone? I think even Dad, open mind and all, would have trouble with that one

Why not? You could make the argument that alot of people marched Corps over the years because of the differences to band which made it something unique to watch and listen to. I certainly can't speak for anyone else but that's the exact reason I was initially attracted to Drum Corps and not marching band.

How many times has DCI made a rule change, thought better of it at some point for whatever reason and as a result changed it back? With all this talk of whether or not "everything" should be allowed now that the cat's out of the bag with the most recently approved additions, I don't recall alot of DCI history that tells me it's likely for them to repeal much of anything. Is there any precedent out there? The only thing that I can even think of where something was allowed and then taken away is maybe the use of water, seems like the Magic comes to mind for some reason. Like I said just wondering.

I'm curious as well, too bad we'll never have an answer, unless if things come full circle and holding to the philosophy of change for the sake of change forces you to change yet again, this time to the "way it was". Good Lord that's alot of change!

No.

Ok, so for those one or two the cost of electronics is negligible, what about everybody else?

You know I never once have questioned his "passion", my first impression back in '83 was here's a guy who will pretty much run over his own Mother to get what he wants. His dedication to the "kids" (exactly how many are under the age of 18 anymore by the way?) and his vision of the best course for the survival of his organization are to be somewhat admired, if not for the underlying sense of arrogance that goes along with that. Don't make the mistake to think that he's done by any stretch, not by a long shot. Trust me, if woodwinds are part of his "agenda" it's just a matter of time and watch the obstacles keep falling at an accelerated rate. I honestly do hope that the upcoming period of "evolution" in DCI will provide great things for a youth activity that's given so much to so many (not just George Hopkins), no need or reason to be wishing failure on any level. But you can't deny that there haven't been too many other individuals, if any, who have had more of an impact regarding major rule changes in the history of competitive Drum Corps. I just wish he'd take a break once in a while

Which is why it makes so much sense to keep adding more and more expensive toys in the name of "progression" or "evolution" or any other neat little cliche they come up with.

Let's just hope that with changes as drastic as what DCI is coming up these days DCA will become a refuge for fans of a certain brand of Drum Corps (members and spectators alike) and solidly grow within that identity. We can hope, right?

Well said my friend, the only thing I'll ask is how many honestly didn't think this was inevitable once they passed amps? Once you take away the unique aspect of being acoustic it only makes sense to not stop there, why would you? I say that with no animosity, if these and future changes help maintain a great youth activity and people show up and cheer, then more power to them. Just not my cup of tea anymore, although I'll probably look up some videos on youtube to check in from time to time, it's tough to go cold turkey with anything after 28 years.

As someone who has experienced those same 28 years as you have I couldn't agree more my friend, the only thing I'd change is to just say goodbye to DCI, not Drum Corps (think DCA). I've said it before and I'll say it again, thank God for CD"s and DVD's!!!

Which market is growing? The market for summer marching bands? You seem to say that while Drum Corps serves a purpose that is different than marching bands, this not-so-eventual transformation to just that is the right way to go? And how exactly do these changes in product better provide for either it's participants or consumers? Change it all you want, your consumers will continue to be a majority of friends and families of the marching members, with fewer and fewer "enthusiasts" who can associate with wholesale changes to a product that they loved in some part because of the differences to marching band. I do agree that the vast majority of current members are from marching band and if that's truly the case I have to wonder how many of them march because it is different than marching band, or how many think how great it would be to have "anything goes". If this passes I really can see DCA being bigger than DCI in the not so distant future, and while that may sound like a stretch, I can recall many shows with both junior and senior Corps doing pretty well in the past. I'd go. As long as it's Drum Corps

There it is in a nutshell, not for nothing but kind of thought this was inevitable as far back as the mid 80's, just never knew when. How does it make sense to say that a Corps can place in DCI's championship "finals" and not have a say in the direction of the activity? I love the part about streamlining the administrative process, by not having those extra people around for those 4 meetings a year think how much will be saved in box lunches alone!! Get ready, the guy who is a self-proclaimed non-fan of Drum Corps will be proud to present "Summer Bands of America" coming to a region somewhat near you, as soon as he can get a few more of those pesky "rules" out of the way.

Ok, I just did a little research and looked at score recaps from last year and beyond, the one thing I noticed was how many more sub-captions there are than even 10 years ago. That's the next thing I'm going to look up, just how many times did the scoring captions stay the same in back-to-back years? Just from the random sampling I looked at dating back to '72, you could come to the conclusion that they can't ever seem make up their minds and come up with the "right" way to judge their own activity and stick with it, always tinkering and leaving itself open for even more subjective decision making in a judging process that was made primarily subjective years ago. I have to think that in the number of sub-captions that exist on the current scoresheet a judge would find a way to let his/her thought process about the use/non-use of amplification for a particular Corps come out in a score and I for one will not be paying the $80 to find out exactly how!

Let's not get carried away here, all I'm looking for is what the current judging captions are and what percent each carries of the total score. $80?! Really?

Ok, where can I go to see DCI's scoring system first-hand? Couldn't find anything on their website about scoring or rules.

Just wondering, is there somewhere you can go to actually see the current DCI scoring sheets? I'd be real curious to read the exact scoring caption breakdowns and the criteria for such. With all this talk of what is and isn't judged I'd like to see it for myself. Now as far as the question of whether or not a Corps is judged on having amps or not, simple logic tells me that of course that will happen, and yes, I happen to be a dreaded "anti-amp" person, or simply someone who doesn't see any added benefit to the activity by the inclusion of amplification. For anyone, be it a judge, instructor, fan or whoever to not see/hear a difference between amped and non-amped Corps and form some sort of opinion on those differences doesn't make a lick of sense to me. The question then becomes how do these varying opinions manifest themselves on the scoring sheet, that would answer for me just how much amps are "encouraged" or not. Is a General Effect caption enough to cover it, or is a more specific guideline needed, something like an automatic 5 point penalty for any power outages

Ok, that's a rhetorical question, right?

As I think about the possibilities - here's an idea, let's just do away with boundries of any sort, field or otherwise. I mean think about it, how much fun would it be to just tell everyone in the Corps that this years drill will be the easiest to learn in the history of the activity. All you have to do is march, sorry, I mean walk around the stadium wherever your heart takes you, as a matter of fact you may be the one we pick to not even get off the bus. Don't worry, you'll have an iCorps in your ear that will not only let everyone hear you loud and clear but you can also call that cute guy/girl in the Blue Devils you met at the hot dog stand anytime you want, except nights and weekends. Maybe we should try to figure out some sort of pattern so we don't all walk into each other - wait a minute, if we just sing "what would George Hopkins do" it will all work out because we're all somebody, gosh darnit! What instrument should you play? Funny you should ask that, because this year we're going to try to disprove the age-old theory that you can't be all things to all people so bring anything you find laying around. But don't worry if you can't find something you can make some sort of noise with, we'll have a backup sound guy to fill in the blanks. Congratulations Mr Hopkins, you've just proven to me that you're absolutely right, Drum Corps (at least DCI) IS marching band.

Once again Mike, I'll respectfully agree to disagree with your opinions

For the love of God, don't tell MikeD any of that!! I certainly see your point, it's just that I see the changes being envoked as blurring any lines that happen to seperate the two.

Maybe, but not as many as there could be and should be. Do I have a bunch of numbers to back this up? Nope, just the opinions of about 100 or so former members/fans that I still keep in touch with.

Why must this discussion always turn into "well, if you're against one specific change then you must be against all change"? And good luck with those "thousands" of kids you seem to think are out there, wait until they find out that all they'll be getting for their money is the same thing they could get with countless marching bands throughout the country, as opposed to the unique power and excitement that once was Drum Corps. My entire point was that if you could manage to hold on to some of what made Drum Corps unique in the first place then you would not only attract new fans, but maybe, just maybe retain more than a handful of us "old-timers" as well.

Here's where we'll have to agree to disagree Mike, I will never understand your reasoning on this one. Does this also mean that every marching band is a Drum Corps with woodwinds? I think this is why you and I will never see eye to eye on this, I see them as being 2 seperate things while you just lump it all together. Oh well.