Fincis

That's too night and day, at least the way I read it. I don't think anyone is arguing against what you just posted in regards to individuals taking liberties and being too musical or not applying fundamental ensemble concepts on the field. Read kksop's last post. He articulates it better what we're after. I'd venture to say also that you haven't gotten the same out of drum corps as the rest of us have. Remember it's only a slight difference we're talking about here. I can play with respectable technique on the field. Before you come back with "your standards for technique aren't the same as mine" I could bet that they are, if not more and that my technique on the field both musical and visually is finer. But when it comes time during a hit, it's those unique moments in drum corps where when called for, a corps can open up even more. Again, these are only slight differences in how we approach things.

Great post. I'm glad you bring up the black and white aspect. It's so true. If you read EVERY response to my posts it pertains to the black and white, not the actual point I was going for. If I wasn't clear, forgive me. However, I feel that I was fairly clear because everyone with a bit of an open mind knew EXACTLY what I was going for. What I mean is, read the post for what's it worth. It seems like it was not even read and just dismissed as soon as my screen name was scanned over to lead to an argument I wasn't even implying. Furthermore, if you feel like my responses have been truly black and white, please let me know. I will do my best to better explain what I mean. The point I was going for is what's discussed so eloquently just now by kksop.

I like the way this is put and gets my point across in a shorter statement.

Agreed, especially in the form of drum corps at least.

You're right about AOC. When I saw that I was thinking TOC in 2004, my bad. I'll come back and throw in my rebuttle on the rest later this afternoon because the point I was trying to make was lost and I have to run.

Actually he's right on in expressing his opinion on that. It's different than yours, but that's what he looks for. He also talked very politely about how it's not about the individual, like you keep suggesting, but rather the ensemble.

Playing within the ensemble does not limit musicianship, it's the way some ensembles go about it. The problem is with certain ensembles that they often focus so highly on blend that they won't take any risk at playing the real music. If someone sticks out by playing a true forte or fortissimo that is what the piece is asking for what happens 99% of the time with these ensembles? They are backed off. There's not enough experimentation to develop a good player in some ensembles. Yes, you can do it own your own if you practice, but not everyone in your ensemble is going to do that. I'd rather push them a little and if they have an edgy sound we can refine that. That's what a music educator does. You teach kids how to play well in an ensemble AND how to play their instruments better. It seems to me like worrying so much on keeping a secure and COMFORTABLE blend is the safe way out in teaching music. Take some risk, get a little edgy sound at first, then teach the students how to make a better sound in order to be successful. If there's a little bit of edge to the brass sound and they're balanced with each other and the music calls for it, keep it up. I'm not saying go WAY overboard, but edge CAN be good at times and it can be refined. I'd venture to say edge is preferred in a lot of music, including drum corps. Go listen to the CSO play the end of Mahler 2. They have edge and it's GREAT!!! It would be the most boring thing in the world if they played it safe and comfortable in an undemanding dynamic to create only their best tone quality and not go outside those boundries. Please, don't put words in my mouth. Maybe you just read it the wrong way, but basically the whole previous posts was disregarded by thinking I didn't take into account everything that should already happen in an ensemble. There needs to be more than what you're asking for though. I'm not saying completely deny everything that goes along with playing in an ensemble like starting, sustaining, and ending together. Of course those are all a major part of musicianship, including blend and balance. I'm saying that particular ensembles lack that aggressiveness and risk taking. They play it so safe to strive for that perfect blend that they sacrifice the musicality and development of their players. Of course a player is going to grow by learning to fit in and move with the ensemble, but they will not grow in their individual performance capabilities as much as they could because they are being limited to only what they can do. Think building range. Yeah, we all sounded horrible on a high Bb when we first played, or couldn't even play it. A good chunk of people are still like that in HS. Does that mean that they shouldn't play music like that because they will not be producing their best tone quality on it? In order to get better, you have to work on what you're not good at. This may be an more extreme example, but it's the same thing that's happening in ensembles sometimes. They play it safe in order to sound good at what they're good at. There's no pushing the boundries in those regards. I'm not saying take a huge leap to the next level. It takes time and smaller increments. Also, I'm not suggesting individuals take liberty to overly be musical in the ensemble. I've had the opportunity to play in ensembles of BOTH kinds. Yes, the one that purely focused on blend, balance, timing and all the ensemble concepts was cleaner than the other. But hey, the other was actually making music. I know you'll argue that the first is making music as well, but it's just not quite the same. Anyone on here that has experienced that and knows what I'm talking about will agree whole-heartedly in a split-second. Anyone who hasn't probably won't get it from me or anyone else taking a stand on a forum. It's about the music first and foremost.

Did you at least have fun while you were playing it? I love to watch that recording because I know the purpose is not to create a beautiful ensemble blend, but to blow the house down. Therefore, I'm not listening for quality, I'm soaking up how much of a fun time the members are having. There's a time and place for everything, and AOC was just to let loose and have fun. I think the reason many of us love the volume aspect so much is because it lets raw emotion fly. It's easy to tell that the corps is giving everything they've got towards the audience. If it's too contorlled many people find it beautiful, but also boring (in drum corps at least, and even in wind ensemble). I know there's emotion behind it in acheiving that level of performance and ensemble quality, but it's not nearly the same, at least for me and many others. I'm almost positive that for most alumni/members here, their fondest musical memory with the corps was one with raw emotion where they could let it all out. Not one where they were going for that refined perfect ensemble blend w/o stick outs. The reason everyone loves Phantoms and Cadets ballads so much is because with their volume at the hits, the level of emotion in transferred to the audience. It's powerful, not refined and pretty. I love refined and pretty, but when it comes to a drum corps hit, give me all you got. I really hope that everyone has had the chance to experience music in that type of aspect. That's one of the great things about music is releasing emotion. Have you ever cried at the raw power of a performance in or outside drum corps? The term elitist has been thrown around and I'm sure it will come back to haunt me here, but I need to put this out there in regards to the two different philosophies we're talking about here. I think that many students have been "brain-washed", FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, that playing past the boundry of pure tone quality and blend is the absolute worst thing you can do. I agree that it is the biggest priority, but sometimes it seems like it happens so much and so often that students aren't allowed to grow as a musician, only as a limited player. They aren't allowed to take risks and use some of that adrenaline involved in a great musical performance to tip the emotional level over the edge. Sure the sound won't be ideal for a bit, but that's were the role of educators and practice comes in is expanding and refining the player, not just refining the player. Let the musicians be emotional and musical themselves, not just polished. How are you ever going to expand your horizons when you don't want to or you're not "allowed" to? This is just a different philosophy, not necesarily a better/worse one. With one you loose a bit of that ideal ensemble blend, while with the other you loose a sense of yourself as a musician. I know I just opened up a whole new thing here and will hear lots of flaming from Cavalier/Houston people and I'm sorry for temporarily moving the thread in this direction. PM me too if you like. It will keep some of this traffic down and you can really let me know how you feel. Also... Here's a cool tidbit on *Edit TOC in California*. The lead trumpets had a ton of fun and mutual respect for one another and all came together by the end. The first performance, The Cadets and Blue Devils leads clumped together and hung every not possible in Swing, Swing, Swing. The 2nd night we were joined by SCV and The Cavaliers and by the third all 6 corps had their lead trumpet players huddle and taking everything up. Of course we didn't sound good, but that was a great experience I'm sure all of us will remember. It's not often you can put so many leads together to let it rip.

Here's one. If the American flag is used in a show for the guard it should not be the real flag. For example, it might only have 49 stars.

This is for all the "physics rocks and playing in tune means that you're louder than everyone else". We understand, we get it. We all know the physics by now and no one is arguing against that at all. What we are saying is that you can make more of a drastic difference in volume depending on how much air you put through the horn than how in tune you are. Yes, give me both and I'm very happy, but playing in tune doesn't mean you're going to be loud. Does a corps playing a phrase at piano and perfectly in tune mean they're really loud? NO. They have to play loud first and foremost, that's what matters here. Then the physics can add an extra boost of sound on top of that. I would think many can argue that Cavaliers 02 was the most in tune hornline around. However, you won't really find anyone saying they were the loudest. I'm sure the loudest hornline of all time wasn't very in tune. They just happened to put a lot more air into the horn. Sorry for the rant. 15 explanations of physics making a corps the loudest thing on the field is one too many. We really do get the physics...really. :)

It's the front line during visual warm-up. I'm trying to remember which year it was from, either 04 or 05. I think it's from 05 and in that case from furthest away to closest to the camera it goes... Michael Terry - Baritone Kacy Dolan - Trumpet Me - Trumpet Michael Tadlock - Baritone Paula Hyman - Mellophone I think the only difference the year before was that Jason Fortner was in the front line on trumpet. Sorry, long explanation. Edited to correct Paula's instrument. Thanks Mistofflies, sorry Paula.

Well put. Never said they didn't play loud, said they didn't play loud in comparison with other corps. I am skepticle though and I need to recheck out the shout section in 03.

I didn't have the luxery of listening to the original until after hearing Phantom, but I LOVED what they did with it. One of my favorite moments of the summer.

I'm sure you're saying this in relation to that loudest hornline would be louder if they are in tune. However, why is the arguably most in-tune hornline, The Cavaliers, also arguably the softest? Yes, I know we've answered technically this question in regards to describing the brass staff approach. I'm just saying that the sheer volume output has a much larger effect on the physics than how in-tune it is. That's why SOME people argue that they prefer volume over tuning, is my guess. To them the drop in quality of volume is much more noticeable than a drop in how well the corps plays in-tune. Also, doesn't it seem boring to always be inside the box and not take any risk? I love reaching for quality, but how many professional players do you think got there with out taking risks in their own playing? That's why you practice. If you limit yourself to only what you can play with fantastic quality, how are you going to grow as a player? I think the approach The Cavaliers take with their brass is great and it works perfectly for them. I just look for that little bit of extra "expressiveness". That's just me and I know there is no right or wrong and that there are a lot of people on either side of the fence.

Please tell me that was meant as a joke making fun of BOTH of you. There are many ways that statement can can come across, and most of them are far from positive.

That's awesome! I'm excited to see that the Rose Bowl picture still has the field from the National Championship.

Haha, sorry if I seemed utterly upset about it, just sayin'.

Ask any garage band who they're inspirations are. They all have them. Ask any composer too and they will tell you who they model their own compositions after. There's a difference between being inspired by and a flat out arrangement.

Yeah Tristan, nice post. There's a few things I'll suggest to the reader that are different and it's mainly just my own style of doing things that I got used to, not necessarily better. Plus some more I though of. Bring enough underwear/socks to last everyday plus a few for the laundry cycle (usually about 2 weeks). More socks than that work great too to replace the ones that get soaked from the rain. Athletic socks that wick away moisture are a great upgrade to have. Bring two pairs of shoes. When one gets wet, put them in the compartment in the back left of the outside of the bus. They will be dry in the morning. Those neck pillows work great for the bus. Buy a pillow case to fold over the seat in front of you that will act as a pouch/large pocket. If you're allowed, buy shower suction cup hooks and shelves to store on the windows. I found using soap was fine, it never caked up. It just seems like a loofa is unsanitary taking it around all those locker rooms. Sunscreen will not explode in your bag, just be careful with it. If you really want to be careful you can use the plastic bag. Two smaller towels is a good idea. If you can find one of those swimmer towels that dries super quick, do that. Air mattress are easily better than thermarest pads and I found easier to pack up too. There's a great camping air mattress that has a sleeping bag and pillow built in too. Bring a mouthpiece brush. Shower with your horn before every show. During pack, load, eat, get ready time do everything opposite of what most people do. I.E. take a shower while everyone eats, then eat immediately after. You should have wheels on your luggage. If you can get the back pack straps, but those come in handy maybe 10 times a year where wheels work everytime. If there's something a lot of people have like hornline towels or shorts, find a way to personalize them. Don't worry about drinking too much water. Yes, water intoxication can happen, but it's rare and not something you need to worry about. It has more to do with chugging huge amounts of water rather than drinking a large amount over a span of time like you would in rehearsal. Dome stadiums aren't a big deal. Just stay focused like you always do and you'll be fine. Know that if you're thinking something like how hard basics block is, there's at least 10 other people thinking exactly the same thing. You may not be the best in the corps at marching, but you can find something specific to focus on and be the best at, like square shoulders or hands most open away from the horn. People will notice small things like that. Learn your music before move-in to where you nail it 9 out of 10 at least. If you write stuff in your dotbook, do it as soon as possible. For example at The Cadets, we typiallly got drill during breakfast or the beginning ot visual block. I would write down all my dots and memorize them before we started setting up the form or moving. This will help the learning process, especially in your first year. If you know the time the corps will wake-up, set your alarm for 15-30 minutes before. This isn't necessary, but you can get a great deal done like polishing your shoes and packing your bags. This enables you to have even more relax time throughout the day. Buy a tioletry bag to put everything in. Some people prefer toolboxes instead. IMO, they take up too much room. Get a gallon water jug with a strap on it. It will free up your hands when walking to and from rehearsal. Eat as much as you can. You might feel a little sick, which I never did, but you will get used to it and it will help out your energy level. Plus, it's not like you're going to gain wait over the summer (Yes I know of people who have somehow). Excedrin is a good brand of pain-reliever b/c it also has caffeine. Just personal taste. Strech before you go on the bus, it will help with Charlie-horses. If you can, go to a specialty running store where they can "presribe" you shoes. They will look at how you stand/walk and take into account how you roll your feet and march with odd placements all summer to give you the best shoe for the job. Carribeaners work great to strap anything onto your backpack. Another good thing to free up your hands. Be the guy/gal that everyone tries to beat back to their set. Practice visual on your own before/after rehearsal on the field. Great way to show how effort much you're putting into the summer. Use high SPF sunblock. You're going to get tan, so it's better to protect your skin all summer. The zinc-oxide (lifeguard) stuff is great for certain areas like your nose or ears. Memorize all the dots of the people around you. Try to be able to remember them faster than they do. When/if you do yardline crossings, make them specific. Like, the back of my heel touches the left part of the yardline on count 7. Vitamin E works great to revive the lips. However, only use it overnight because exposing it to the sun is NOT a good thing. Twinkle silver polish works better than Wrights if you can find it. Electric shavers rock save time if you have one. Wear sandels as much as you can. You need to air out your feet. FRONT OF THE BUS SUCKS!!!! Don't sit there.

Good story Jason! I wonder how many people had the thought of quitting their first summer in a corps like The Cavaliers. I know I did my 2nd day at The Cadets. I got the same type of support from parents, members, staff, and alumni which really showed me how much of a family drum corps is. Of course,the thought of quitting anything never went through my mind again after that.

Hey, my name's Adrian Caswell. I was born September 4th, 1983 in San Antonio Texas. When I was two I moved to Dallas and was real big into soccer but not music yet. Oddly enough my next-door neighbor and good friend ended up being the 1st chair All-State trumpet, something I found out much later. When I was ten I moved to Austin and have been there ever since. I was still highly involved playing soccer but got much more into music. I began teaching myself piano then took lessons. Once 6th grade came around I fell in love with the trumpet. In high school I made All-State three times where I met my friend from Dallas again at the auditions, that was weird. I was always bred UT, the real "T". My high school colors were even burnt orange and white and had the highest number of people attend UT out of any school in the country one year. I've had the best times while at UT. During college I've had so many great opportunities. I taught lessons of course and also the Westlake Band program for three years as a marching/music tech. Their rehearsals were in the morning, which wasn't bad at all because school only started at 9:00. I've gotten used to waking up early since last semester my latest day started at 8:00, which is really early by college standards. During my five years at UT I was in the Longhorn Band for all of them. Some of the awesome times we had were: Final Four in New Orleans (our hotel was on Bourbon St), Carnegie Hall with the Wind Ensemble, and of course the two Rose Bowls. That's one of the many reasons I can't wait for finals in Pasadena this summer. When I graduate in May I will be moving to Houston to be a band director. Here's my drum corps story. The first show I ever saw was Cadets 2000 my sophomore year of HS. I was hooked and I auditioned my junior year for The Bluecoats and The Cadets. I made the Bluecoats and was so excited, but after seeing that 2000 Cadets show and them having an audition camp in Dallas, I couldn't resist. I made The Cadets and started marching in 2001 on lead trumpet. In 2004 and 2005 I was lucky enough to be horn sergeant. This last summer I got to help out teaching The Cadets for a couple of days in Colorado. I had a blast and couldn't believe I was doing that only a year ago. It’s so much more impressive seeing it live down on the field. This summer I'm not working with any drum corps but already filling up everyday, especially with the move to Houston. I'm sure one day soon I'll be back in the thick of things. When I started at UT I met a wonderful girl named Jenny. We were both in Longhorn Band and played trumpet. We immediately hit it off and began dating in the spring of our freshman year. It was our four-year anniversary last Monday and she's the greatest thing that could've ever happened to me. She graduated in December and is an RN at Texas Children's Hospital in Houston. Random things: I play a Bach Strad 37. I have two cats, Baby Bear and Chopper. I drive a 2000 Honda Prelude. My favorite shows are Cadets 2000, Cadets 93, and Madison 95 Favorite overall show I marched - 2005. Favorite single production I marched - 2002, Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy. Favorite staff members: Gino Cipriani, Dean Westman, Sully, John Bilby, George Hopkins, and Daniel Benton. Favorite meal on tour: Having a fastfood chain next to the housing site, anything chicken. Favorite admin: Megh Healey!

Cadets - See how the home team is doing and their music sounds awesome! Bluecoats - Sounds like a great show concept and curious to see if they'll keep stepping up. Phantom - Just love their music, always looking forward to seeing them. Cavaliers - I'm skepticle about the Billy Joel thing, but really excited to see how they will pull it off, which I'm sure they will. Crossmen - See how quickly the Texas move can work for them. Crown - Same reasons as for Bluecoats. And then the usual SCV, BD and Madison.

Have to disagree here. It's not that impressive doing 5/5 at 200. What was impressive about the drill in 93 Cadets is that other than the ballad, the thing was pretty much non-stop. They were lucky to have a four count hold anywhere. Also, I personally don't think of The Cadets as putting music over marching or vice-versa and I'm sure many would agree with me. At least not to the extent you have depicted. And what makes you think Phantom plays harder music than The Cadets? Purely objective question, not trying to imply anything.

Except he doesn't have to because he's talking about more than that one particular style.

I don't think anyone's trying to force you to change your opinion. They're saying your opinion would most likely change if you marched. After I marched I had a whole different view of the activity. I lost some of the awe at the level of performance and showmanship, but I gained all the knowledge. It really would make a difference in your opinion actually. I'm sure you can ask anyone on here who has marched about how they changed themselves and their perspective over the course of the summer.