Mug663

There's a couple of standards right now. Cavs, Coats, Colts, Crossmen 16/18-20-24-28-32, Cadets stay in the mid 20-22-24-26-30, Crown 18-20-24-28-30/32, BD mixes it up with some and 22, 26 (Scouts did the past couple of years as well). It really depends on the caption head's arranging approach. Cavs had "little" guys on bottom in 01 and 03. 02 just looked little compared to the guy playing b4. If the kid is motivated enough it doesn't matter how heavy the drum is, how hard the drill is, how small the kid is - they'll make it work. I'll give you a quote from the guy that marched bottom at Cavs in 01: when asked about how he felt about being offered bass 5 "I told them I'd march a refrigerator if it meant being in the corps." You get used to it...

Does anyone have the actual count? I know all 7 of the Yamaha corps used Motifs, as well as Academy, and BD used Roland. Past that I'm not sure... I think my original statement of "merely reacting to the market" needs some clarification. That was meant only in regards to the drum corps activity. The sponsors are most definitely designing, planning, etc. way above and beyond that, however. I don't think any of these sponsors are "merely reacting to the market" as an overall strategy - just in the instance of these rule changes. "Guess again. These changes have nothing to do with what the audience wants....and if that was the prominent concern, Bb/F, amps and electronic instruments would be repealed (if they were ever passed in the first place)." (quote fail...) I disagree - in general I think the taste of audiences (being the majority) have changed quickly over the last 10-20 years due to outside environs. You can blame rap music, the media, the parents, whatever, but I believe that gradual evolution of widely accepted tastes in popular music, fashion, architecture, speech and advertising (outside of the music industry) have a vast effect on the populus' perception of the product the corps are putting on the field. They want new, exciting, and different - not more of the same - just like they're getting in the rest of their lives. That being said - it would be really interesting to see what would happen if DCI let the fans (all the fans...not just DCP) vote on the rules, however. And I don't believe that plugged-in=manipulative. Manipulative would mean they are trying to move the market for their gain with either no knowledge or concern of the market's wants/needs. This is just bad business - if the market doesn't want/need the product it won't matter how much money or marketing fuel they throw around - the product won't sell. By plugged-in I mean they have their finger on the pulse - not around the jugular. I better cut this out...I'm running the risk of hitting 50 posts...

True - but as I said, the high schools still drive the demand. The use of drum corps in advertising helps create some of that demand, but it isn't quantifiable. In many markets what the local college is playing actually has more influence on purchase decisions than any drum corps advertisement ("If it's good enough for the 'Huskers, it's good enough for me!"). Using drum corps in advertising is just one part of a multi-pronged, multi-level marketing strategy.

That's a pretty short-sighted alternative to my statement. The companies certainly do R&D activities above and beyond the intermittent requests from the drum corps. In my response I'm only speaking to these specific instances that the driving force in USING these items is/was the performing orgs, not the companies. The "drum corps market" is a misnomer - it is a very, very small part of the entire marching market. The drum corps assist in design, the high schools drive the demand. In the way that you are suggesting? No. Are they in support of the changes? You bet. Again, I believe this is DCI and the directors racing to keep up with what the audiences (arguably) want. You, or the rest of the DCP world, may not agree with it, but based on the BoD votes it can be said that this is the direction that the majority of the corps directors believe the activity should be heading. I believe it is merely coincidental that one company in particular can meet the needs of most of the major rule changes over the last 10 years. If you want to point fingers at electronics manufacturers, I'm pretty sure Roland had the most to gain from their addition as they weren't even allowed in the door before this year. And Cavaliers 04 had a great gunshot/ricochet sound, and BD's train, and so on and so on... I don't equate using synths with a lack of creativity. I should mention, btw, that I'm not really a fan of the synth. They seem to be a great way to "synth"etically (sorry for that...) boost a corps' low end...what ever happened to playing loud, tubas?!? I would say synths increase creative ability in design, but decrease (but don't eliminate) creative necessity in execution - that's for sure. Perhaps that could be justified by saying now that the staff doesn't have to spend time figuring out how to create an effect they can spend more time teaching the members how to be great musicians - not sound effects guys. Strange? No. Coincidental. The reality is that the marching market is miniscule for electronics and PA gear. Sure there are tons of groups buying/using the stuff, but in comparison to the rest of the market for these products these purchases are a barely noticeable drop in the bucket. Follow the money? There's not much to follow... As for the length of time the technology has been around - that begs the question why didn't Yamaha/Roland/Peavy try and force their electronics agenda on poor, helpless DCI sooner? If they're supposedly raking in the dough now, how many years of potential income did they just let fall by the wayside!?!?! Fools!! I know it's easy to point the fingers at these big, bad companies and scream "You're ruining our activity!" There's a few people on here that I'm pretty sure are ready to grab pitchforks and torches... Keep in mind these evil, manipulative organizations are made of people just like you and me - musicians, educators, former marching members, fans - not lobbyists. I could go on and on and on...but obviously you've made up your mind.

There's a big difference between being "plugged-in" and being manipulative. Unless you know, for a fact, that someone from Yamaha specifically had any influence on the passing of a rule - as the passing, not subsequent execution, is what we are discussing - please enlighten the rest of us. Otherwise these are just baseless accusations. Here's a real question for the group - would DCI be able to survive without these "evil" companies? (sheesh - two posts in a day...I'm on fire...)

I don't normally post, but I've seen this theory pop up a couple of times and I have to say this is utterly preposterous. The companies - all of them - merely react to the demand of the market - in these cases the market is the drum corps who are coming to the companies asking for the gear, not the other way around. They have nothing to do with any of the rule changes short of confirming what was/is possible - and of course in some cases saying "Great News!" when it appears a new segment may open - ask a director who was involved with the rule change petitions. In the case of electronics the high school, indoor and college groups were purchasing all of this gear (and Bb horns) long before any of the drum corps were using them. DCI is trying to stay current with what the rest of the marching market is doing to keep themselves relevant to a new, plugged-in audience - not to increase sales of their sponsors. Even at that - the changes you're talking about were/are driven by the design staffs of the various corps - not DCI! ALL of these designers have been using this gear in their HS/College programs for years - and many of them have complained "How is it possible that I can produce more sounds, volume, and therefore effect in my HS band than my drum corps!?!" If a show designer believes that they need a fully operational jet engine on the field to produce the effect they're looking for you can be assured they'll fight for that - no matter how preposterous or activity-changing it may be. But in your eyes I guess that won't happen since Boeing isn't a sponsor...yet. It appears you honestly believe this conspiracy theory - which is quite shocking. It is ill-conceived, ill-informed, and potentially libelous. This is band - not a special-interest-fueled congress. /steps back into the darkness

seriously... you don't count it. you just play it. with the claps. all the time.... and if the line plays clean it doesn't sound like shoes in a dryer. and keep the highs high and the lows low

actually... you don't count it... you just play with the claps. sip

just remember... if you get lost play with the claps... spoly

James B. Campbell.

Any word on Ian Murphy??

Hmmmm.... not a bass drummer I presume. That's the kind of mentality that leads to bad tuning. After all they are just impact drums...right? Rosewood in the rain. NOOOOOOO!!!!! I've heard bad everything and good (almost) everything. With enough hard work you can make a can of burnt hair sound absolutely amazing.

the MTS is something you usually write specifically for. Cavs have used it off and on over the past couple of years for a bunch of different things. Sip Bassque

wow - some people just seem to really dislike certain corps no matter what the community says about them. Cavaliers apparently have never won a deserved championship. I wonder why they even try anymore. Thppppppppt! Bitter bitter people.

I saw Ayala's drums at BOA - they are - to say the least - gorgeous. Doug

We've never squatted to march. Sometimes, however, our step size is so large that you may see us drop a little. This is unavoidable unless you "hop" all over the field like some lines I've seen in the past. As far as staying inside the 40's, most of my sets were between (let's see if I can actually remember this) I think the 25-30 area, but that really doesn't matter. I'd rather see a line stay between the 40's and actually be a part of the rest of the drill than running around the whole field for no reason whatsoever. In a lot of cases that's more distracting. Personally, my favorite bassline was the 01 Cavaliers. Even though I didn't march in that line, I have always loved the way those guys played together. Not to mention that Neo was one of the best Bass 5's to step foot on a football field. In my opinion when you rank line against line, I&E is a totally different ballgame. If we're talking best marching basslines here, we should keep it that way, but when you start incorporating I&E history I think the criteria becomes to braod. I think bass ensembles are actually cliche and boring and they don't show off the true essence of a bass line and the players' true abilities as bass drummers. I've seen a lot of lines who can play some "cool" runs on the ground but can't do the one thing moving that is the most vitally important aspect to marching bass drum: playing together. And that's my post for the millenia. (As you can tell by my post count I rarely talk, but I'm always listening) Doug

GBass - Which line are you referring to concerning the "squatting" style of crabbing? Are you sure it isn't just bad posture? Doug

Ouch Thanks for the compliment, though. Doug Cavaliers Bassque 02-04

Glenn Kotche, drummer for Wilco, marched in the Cavaliers snare line in (I believe) 1989. He's also a UK Grad. Also - he may not be famous, but it is notable that another Cav's snare drummer hat marched 97-00, Mark Hunter, is the marimba soloist for "Marimba Spiritual" for the Japanese BLAST! tour. Doug

Actually, after closer inspection and actually looking at it the break down is a bit off. The entrances are different then above, and at different counts. Also, you left out the vital 6th line - the aforementioned audience accompaniment. Sip

No sarcasm intended - that was the most detailed thing I've seen on this site. Sip

Wow JBlade - I've never seen it broken down like that. And no, there is no written version in existence. It is taught every year by rote and passed down from line to line. Being the only bassque vet in '03, I had to make sure I remebered it right! And actually, there are licks that bassque 1 plays that have "historical" influences. All you have to remember is that as soon as the audience starts clapping, just follow them - its just as good as a met. Thanks to Paul Milano Sip Bassque '02-'04