BariBrian

"I also want to let folks know that Jeff Perkins not only gave his heart and soul to the corps but back in the day but was also one of the most well respected Directors in all of Drum Corps.Jeff's dedication and skill not only kept the Avant Garde in business despite the tough times all corps faced,he was also sought out by many other corps, some of them "finalist" corps, for advise and direction. He did so much with so little." and FYI Jerry Kasier was just as respected and saught after by many corps in that same time period. He was an excellent Drum Major,,one of the very best I have ever witnessed and was highly respected by many of his peers and DCI elite. More over Jerry was a natural leader with the ability to handle tough situations in a very approachable manor. Many a show I knew that our performance was inspired by the guy on the podeum giving 120% of himself before, during, and after the show itself. Thanks Jer, for all of that and so much more

I certainly agree with most of this. However those letters, "DCI" still pop up here too. It was DCI's restriction of the member corps of where they could perform who they could be recorded by. Who could photograph them. Granted DCI had no malice in their decisions, they truely were doing these things to improve the welfare of drum corps, but these regulation had long reaching effects, that many show sponsers & corps. could not recover from. Suddenly instead of having the very elite corps attending their big shows, they had corps of a much lesser crowd draw ability. Eventually many show sponser decided it was no longer worth the effort. When I was a boy in drum corp. I use to be able to bring my tape recorder to shows and not be hassled. I use to be able to bring my camera and take pictures of my favorite corps because I was a fan, not because I wanted to sell them to others and while I understand DCI's issue with it, I do NOT agree with those policies. Still Its just about Money and unfortunatly thats what motivates these days. Corps were promised better "Pay Days" with this "New Organization" formed by corps that were certainly not getting paid what they surely were worth. But again the rules and regulations that evolved over the next few years hurt sponsers of those big shows and also the lesser "Non-Member" corps. Inorder to keep those big "Pay Days" coming, new forms of revenue had to be found, such as souvineirs, recording, photographs, and other types of merchendise. And the bigger corps found to keep competitive and continue to get those big "Pay Days" they had to start searching for "Ready Made Talent" guess where that came from. Anyways, whats done is done, and as I said, it was all done for "The Good" of the activity. Natural to want to survive, and thats what they were trying to do, and in so many ways they did that. BUT what a cost I don't believe any of what has happened was intentional or a conspiracy of any sort. they were just an effects of choices made, thats it. I do miss the World Open, VFW, America Legion, The Dream and so many more shows that didn't have those three letters "DCI" attached LOL

Keith, You set the tempo my friend. Things can get accomplished so much easier when its dealt with in this fashion. Thanks for starting this thread

AHhh Greg Its great to hear from one of my all time favorites! You told it like it is, my old/young friend. Where are you hanging these days? Beside Excelsior. Are you stillplaying one of the meanest (Sapranos) I've ever heard? What a sound you had my friend. What you say about AG is true, sad but true. Money makes the world go round and there just wasn't enough for one more turn. Write me if you get a chance. we all have to hook up, maybe even at one of your rehersals

I kind of think of the bigger corps like the aliens in the movie "Independnce Day" They went from planet to planet consuming all the planets resources and then moving on. Well, thats what happened in the 70's and 80's . They took and took from the associate corps all of the best and brightest, until there were hardly any corps to feed from, so then, in the 90's to the present time, they have made a huge push towards the bands and their music majors. This is why we pushed towards the band instruments that 20 years ago, no corp person wanted anything to do with. . It made it more appealing for the otherwise hesitant band members to make the jump. I'm not saying that this was pre-meditated in anyway. Not at all. its human nature. Survival of the fittest and strongest. Anyway, what will happen next is yet to be seen, but schools are already starting to cut programs including music , throughout the country and if DCI wants to stay strong, it might want to think about strengthening the smaller corps and developing new regional ones. Please remember that this is just my old has-been opinion and its not meant to offend anyone in the least. Whats happening will happen weather we talk about it or not. Very few control it, much like our goverment I suppose. We must live with it, or decide to live without it

Thanks for the info. I wish that had all happened. It would have been great to see them in the finals. We all worked so hard as do all the corps. What you're telling me is a shame if they only needed a lttle good old fashioned management to get what might have been the best season ever. I have never heard this part of the story before, though I live amoung many Including Jeff who is still a very close friend. Then again, many that I am still in contact with, may have been out long before this happened. Heartbreaking

Wow Keith you're really gonna stir it up now LOL. I know when I marched in the 70's, when DCI was young, It was less "Corporate". They actually seemed to care about each corps as well as the activity. (My opinion of course) as the years rolled by, the desparity between the rich corps and poor corps seemed to grow wider & wider. I can't ever say for sure what happened but I know after the first year that we made associate membership, we were told that "If we didn't do our DCI tour obligation then we could expect no help in the future from DCI". That comment always stuck with me. For financial reasons, we could not meet our tour obligations fully and The following year we were destroyed in Philly Prelims. Corps that we beat all year long buried us. I have to assume as it got bigger (DCI) it got less interested in indavidule corps or their troubles and started thinking about the elite that brought the crowds in. Again this is just my opinion. I am an old man now and mean now harm or offence to anyone. My sun no longer rises and sets with drum & Bugle corp, but especially the politics of it

When the Emerald Knights and Spiegleairs first Merged, I was the one and only out of state member. I traveled from Pittsfield Mass to march with the Emerald Knights From Saratoga Springs NY. It stayed pretty much that way with some minor exceptions throughout the corps. History. And in my opinion a very fine group of kids, who I have always been proud to call friends. And you are correct Many of them went on to help many other corps. Tom did help out with Star as I recall and was a major part of their success in the precusion section. Thanks for your kind words

Thats the story that I remember, thanks for sharing

This is so true,,at least for me. There was much more ,,Drama back then because you just never knew. I can remember sitting at prelims waiting for them to announce scores. It was stressful but it added to the excitement. Back then the favorite, got surprised once in a while. I'm not saying it was always fair, but it was far more interesting not knowing who would win

Thats Ken Curtis who played "Festus" on the TV show "Gunsmoke"

I was out long before this happened I guess. As I mentioned earlier though, Once Jeff Perkins decided to call it quits,,,Avant Garde was doomed, and all the kings horse's and all the kings men,,,,,, and so on. The Keck Brothers were towards the end of AG but DAM they were TALENTED!!!!! Its a shame that so many of the fine corps that you just mentioned failed to return to the field. Its to bad there was such a difference between the "Haves and Have Nots" in our activity. If DCI truely cared about the activity, they might consider some type of revenue sharing system in order to help good corps that have fallen on hard times. Perhaps that would only help as a temporary fix, but then, its amazing what some of these corps could have done with just a little help at the right time. Thanks for the info my friend

Kingsmen & Kilts had two of the finest Baritone lines I have ever had the pleasure to listen to (again & again)

Jeff Perkins -Director of Avant Garde Turned my life around and was second father to many of us. He was the Heart and Soul of Avant Garde. Without him, there was NO Avant Garde. He had a way of getting the most out of us without being a tyrant Dom Delra - Music Guru I had the most respect for him of any adult I had ever met (By the way,,Many of you don't know him, But Dom actually designed the Mellophone When he was the musical director for the Interstatesmen, and was manufactured by Whaley Royce Horns Chet - Kaiser said it best about him. Great guy, and we all miss him George Ross - told it like it was,,,NOT how we wanted to look at it. Jerry Kaiser - Loved Drum Corp,, OUR DRUM CORP.(AVANT GARDE) Totally devoted, totally Loyal, Totally a great leader for many of us (even the OLD ones) There were many others, but these are my standouts

Thanks Gary, I will check it out

What you say is true about the 70's. VERY inconsistant. If I remember correctly even between Prelims and Finals in Philly. Didn't the two corps that you just mention, along with the Freelancers drop in points considerably from their Prelim score?

Yup. Sadly you're right Keith. And the way the economy is , and given the extreme budgets required to be competitive, I would say that it will be many MANY years before we have a contender from NY if ever. We did that Parade rest move in 76 and boy did that dent the sides of our horns LOL. We made the top 25 the very first year tied for 25th with another fine corps from Conn. the Emerald Cadets. Jerry Kasier was right when he said "That first year for us,,, there were so many competitive corps in NY State, that the State Championships had a prelims and finals

Hey Jer, Thanks for the Props my friend, and great to hear from you. I agree with you about politics & AG. It wasn't the issue. We struggled every year to make budget and the writing was on the wall years before we folded. The need to stay competitive in a DCI world made it difficult for corps with marginal sources of money to survive. So Many very fine corps that we competed against, fell in the same way. DCI is great but they have a "survival of the fittest" mentality that has helped to eliminate many many fine Corps. At any rate, the Avant Garde were pretty much done when Jeff retired, NOT because of "Politics" as mentioned earlier by someone. I remember our friends from the Gouchos coming and joing after they had folded, but I must have been gone when the Greece Cadets became a big part of AG as previously mentioned, but it wouldn't surprise me. They were another fine corp in NY that struggled for funds to stay competitive, along with the Purple Lancers, The Squires, and just about every other corps in NY. the Historical area is where dinosaurs like us belong my friend Glad to chat with you Jerry, hope to hear more from you and the rest of the gang

Thanks Keith. I also think AG's Drum Major (Jerry Kaiser) is on here now. I believe he lives in Florida. Hopefully we can connect

The Speigleaires

When I first joined DCP, I had a terrible time tracking down members of my corp Avant Garde. I have been away from DCP for a long time but just recently, I visited and I have noticed that some of you are out there. Tell me, what have you been doing after all these years? Do you have any AG Pics that you'd like to share? Any Favorite Memories?

I was with Avant Garde from its beginning, and I'm not saying this isn't true but if it is, it's the first I have heard of it. The Avant Garde Folded early in 86, mainly because long time director Jeff Perkins resigned and wanted to different things. Jeff was a much loved man, most everyone knew that it would never be the same without him. The day that he resigned was when most members left the Avant Garde, and esentially ending their status as an active D&B corp. There were a few die hards that tried very hard to keep it going and may have contacted another corp, but as I said, AG died when Jeff resigned. Very few of our members at that point were local. Many of them were from the northern part of the state or from other states altogether. Quick shout out to my buddy ODBC

:spit: Rob we all thought it was stupid to, until we read what it meant. It grew on us. Sorry about that that extra 1/2 point thing. Believe me when I say that the gaining points didn't last the whole year LOL

Rob!!!!

As a member of drum and bugle corps. we have all had that one special corps. that we set our sights on. Nothing else mattered (off the record) as long as we beat them. Sure we wanted to compete with the best of course but there was always that one corp,,, that "Thorne in your side" That you loved to hate and loved even more to beat. And please keep in mind , This isn't for "Bashing" or anything too personal. I look at it this way. The measure of any great competitor is how great his compitition is. Still,,, My corps that I loved to hate was the Watkins Glen Squires. In retrospect it seems I felt this way for no other reason other than they were dam GOOD. So,,, Who did you always want to beat? Which corps. did you love to hate??