baritone9172

It's not like they're boarding up the joint, putting up No Trespassing signs, and making the local neighborhood kids think its haunted. I'm sure there is a certain date it needs to be cleaned out by or a date where it can't be used any longer. When that is exactly? Who knows. Not this weekend at least.

Good, you would be a responsible parent... almost... ...if you were a parent of a marching member you also would never throw comments out there that seemingly insult kids and where they choose to march.

Wow, you are one classy guy. If there was ever a rude comment on this board... its this one right here. Let me tell you, you're a true champion. If anyone was following your argument and agreeing with you full-heartedly... they totally just got turned off. Champion debater right here ladies and gents. Indirectly telling a first time marching member in the activity that he will be embarrassed this summer is probably the lowest thing that could happen on this board. That is how I read your post. Shame on you. I feel bad for the people who used to march with you. It probably wasn't a pleasant experience for any them. As a side note, it will be exciting to see the direction that Cap Reg goes in whether it is World Class or Open Class (which the news article on dci.org hinted towards).

Shows you follow Open Class... what is Surf going to march 170 this season? They marched 150 or JUST shy of it last season by 1 or 2.

Any news on how it went?

16th - Academy 17th - The Fabulous Jersey Surf 18th - Troopers 19th - Pacific Crest 20th - Cascades 21st - Mandarins 22nd - Pioneer

Then they would have to explain to all of the fans who enjoy the "other meaning" concept stuff why they didnt provide a long winded show synopsis. Not a well thought out question, Mr. Sun. Sadly, there's more than one audience a corps has to think about now. Can't please all the fans... Memphis can please this one though! Bring it home Mempho! :oD

This sounds like a very interesting show. I can't wait to hear it and hear about how Mempho's season is going when it starts up. Yeah, you're so right, the design team definitely didn't take entertainment into consideration when they were picking out the show, because everyone loves a nice boring production (all sarcasm). You're deciding now that no matter what they do with that concept, it definitely won't be a good listen and a good watch that makes the crowd go, "Wow, where did they come from?" Do you want them to play jazz? Is that what you think will get larger crowds? Maybe jazz will save Open Class? High notes are entertaining, right? (once again, all sarcasm) I wouldn't place any blame or criticism on any corps who is trying to put together a show that they can succeed with. I think Open Class will get more fans if the level of excellence and achievement continues to grow. Designs keep "success" in mind when they pick out a show. If you want to place any blame on corps who should have thought more about the well being of Open Class before themselves, maybe Surf and Academy should have stayed in Open Class? There are several solutions to your question. None of them are necessarily the right answer. Back on topic, I can't wait to see/hear some clips of this program. Those music titles on the website do not sound familiar to me but its always great to get music in a show that corps, over the years, have not beaten to death.

Most people tend to forget about the little corps as I seemingly have too. I realized that I haven't heard ANYTHING from this corps since they canceled their tour to finals during the 08 summer. I remember around this time last year they put up a billion and a half posts on DCP advertising their open house dates. And now... nothing? Their website is never updated either. Any word at all? Did New England just get hosed from another open class drum corps? Down to just Spartans, 7th Regiment, and Citations? Seems I'm jumping to conclusions... but i am just expecting the worst after they had to cancel their tour mid season.

I'll answer this question for him... My sources tell me that Bob Jacobs is a huge fan of 7Up. Statistics show that corps with executive directors who enjoy 7Up over Sprite usually do poorly on finals week in a World Class setting. - Fact Personally, I think Surf will do just fine in a World Class arena if they keep their growth and momentum. They may be the first corps to break the trend and prove these statistics wrong...

Great post coming right.... NOW... This gets me thinking... Biology Behind this Argument Darwin's theory of "Fit" is as much of a matter of opinion to the biological world as it is a matter of opinion when put in context towards Drum Corps. Take the Human species (homo_sapiens) as we know it today. We are clearly on top of the food chain and would consider ourselves the most advanced and successful species on the planet, right? There are something like 6.3 billion of us on this planet. Sadly, there is only one surviving species of us in our genus (H0m0 ---> stupid filter won't let me speak with actual biological terms without it getting #'ed out) because years and years ago we out competed many of our close relatives, sometimes with brute force. That is how we made it where we are today. NOW... Because we are not very diversified it would be much easier for us, or any sign of our existence to be wiped off the face of the earth by a disease, war, or natural disaster. Is that successful? Is that fit? Many will argue, "nope!" and I agree with those people. Take the taxonomic Order Coleoptera (now im really sounding like a nerd, but I promise, there is a point to all of this nerd talk) or more commonly known as the beetles. Think of your typical beetle right now, go ahead... well guess what... there are 349,999 other species of beetles on this planet. They constitute 25% of all known life forms on the planet under the taxonomic kingdom Animalia. That is a helluva lot more than 6.3 billion individuals. For the most part they all have a similar effect on the earth when compared to each other. If half of those species got wiped out over time (there would still be a helluva lot more than 6.3 billion individuals) that taxonomic order would still dominate and rediversify again. Their presence on Earth will still be felt for another million+ years. Talk about SUCCESS out of diversification! Drum Corps Comparison My point being... Drum Corps will soon enough destroy itself much like humans will destroy themselves someday (until we do die though we should preserve the drum corps activity :oD ). If it wants to continue and truly be SUCCESSFUL, it needs to diversify again. Drum corps used to be incredibly diverse! By diversify I mean that it needs to take all shapes and sizes: local, regional, international, small, large, all male, all female, church sponsored, scout sponsored, even more cadet corps (ALL of these don't really have to happen, but some do). Now this seems like it would be impossible and seems like it would hinder the quality of programing. How many churches out there now a days would really be able to sponsor a competitive corps? Not many, but that is because the activity has SPECIALIZED too much. It can still be incredibly competitive if it takes a SMALL step back and say... regionalizes again. This would help the activity re-diversify, it would not hurt the corps on the top of the food chain either, they will still have their DCI finals. Not all corps need to go to finals though. It is not always about the final score but also the lives it affects and the doors it opens in peoples lives. There are several SoCal corps that many of you have not heard of that are lucky enough to SEEM like there is some sort of regional circuit down there. That is only because there are a ton of corps and shows in the area that it is possible to have a 11 show schedule and call it a season in mid-July. In my opinion, Spirit of Newark/New Jersey is just as important to the activity as Blue Devils. If said bottom tier Open Class corps gets wiped out, then the next one will be wiped out too for the same reason and more power to the top corps. There is more pressure on those top corps now to keep the activity alive. Numbers will dwindle until only the top twelve in World Class are left (I am not saying this will happen in the next year but it could in the next 20). Then if those corps get wiped out slowly, it is a pathway to the extinction of the activity. There must be a healthy diversification of corps so that this never happens. The only way to get to that though is to take a small step back and give the "little guys" a bit of kicking room so they can thrive. Maybe regionalizing isn't the kicking room we need... maybe its something else i can't come up with now. Regionalizing COULD be that kicking room though... we won't know if anything is the right answer until it is tested out.

This corps has been making some great progress over the years since they started in 2004. I hope that some great instructors apply for these positions and the corps takes an even larger leap forward. Finals in 2009? I hope so! They were only a few spots away last season...

That allure can't be their number one marketing tool from the beginning of the season if they have 22 horns in May. That marketing tool has proved to diminish in effectiveness over the years. Maybe it worked several years back, but not anymore. Marketing Open Class and moving into that division may actually improve their membership or at least maintain the same numbers from 08 if done properly. I don't want this thread to turn into an argument but you argue it may not work to go Open Class but then you say they could just go for it and compete in World Class with 22 horns? Unless you mean 22 horns in Open Class, a corps cannot compete in World Class and expect competitive results with a brassline that small. Maybe Cadets can try that one out some year...

I realize the idea of going to Open Class (I will not refer to it as 'dropping down a division' because there are no longer numerical values to these classes) may not be the best idea in some senses but in other areas it can benefit. Fighting for recruitment in May must be a tough job for a World Class corps. The corps is almost put in jeopardy. Every corps out their has holes to fill in May but from my understanding the numbers in Pios brass were pretty darn low for quite some time until the brink of summer. The benefit of Open Class is that all corps are comprised of many different levels of talent (i think this may mirror Pio's current member talent percentage, and what they can probably attract right now), and all of these corps are different sizes. Because talent varies so much, numbers in the brass line don't often matter. Take Spokane Thunder for example. They were... correct me if I'm wrong... 15-18 strong in their brassline? Well, the brass book and show design matched what a line that size could handle. They came in 7th overall and maybe... 5th in brass? Oregon Crusaders had 30 brass I think and they took 4th overall, edging Teal Sound, a 70 man hornline. The thing I'm trying to get to is that if Pioneer went to Open Class and continue improving recruiting efforts, there could be a very reasonable size line in terms of Open Class to work with through the WHOLE WINTER. Quality of the program with probably increase if there is a whole WINTER to work with now. The winter is where basic fundamentals of playing and marching are usually built. Whether it is 20, 30, 40 bodies, whatever, the point is you can shoot for a lower number and expect better competitive results because that number will be there ALL SEASON, you won't have to fight in May. When all other variables stay constant or even increase (staff, programming, etc) and competitive success increases over one year, MEMBERSHIP increases. There is more to SELL to the members then. Having a smaller corps, like you already have, and traveling less because in OC you don't have to do an extensive tour that starts in June, will bring down the costs of tour. I know that you would not get paid for shows but being a more local corps and having a few more weeknights and weekends free because you're not attending show after show, more parades or concerts could be another way to bring in money that shows once gave you in WC. Either way, there will probably be a little extra money lying around WHICH could be invested in staff who will stay the long term to build the program from the bottom up. Build it BACK into World Class if it so desires. Right now it seems like Pio would like to build a 50 floor skyscraper of improvement but start building from the 25th floor rather than starting to build it from the foundation. It is much harder to start halfway through. In my eyes, starting it from the 25th floor is remaining in World Class and trying to reinvent the competitiveness of the corps. Building it from the foundation up is going to Open Class and trying to reinvent the corps' competitiveness. It is just more realistic. In summary: Being an Open Class corps could really have its benefits in the longterm. The corps could stay at the same quality it is now, assuming recruiting goes well and the corps can SELL an Open Class competitive status to its members, and take the extra pressure-free time and money to really lay down the bricks for the road ahead: staff/programming/member retention etc etc.

Slow and steady always wins the race! Can't wait to hear more news about the program!

Hopefully something good will come out of this and the BoD tries to reel in someone extraordinary who can bring the corps back from its long competitive hibernation.

Not to pull this thread off topic but... this theory does not always hold true. Some great instructors have come out of the ranks of old Div II/III corps and have never marched a day of their life in Div I. Those do exist you know. Instructors who have marched Div I and suck at teaching also exist. An instructor is only good if they know how to communicate concepts to students well. Marching experience means nothing if they cannot communicate knowledge back to their students. Yes, having marching experience exposes you to a lot of teaching methods but if you suck... you suck hah. BDB and SCVC are good examples to your theory but what about these corps in previous years? I presume you chose these names because they came in 2nd and 1st this year. They were great in previous years but not close to a title. I assume you mean "significantly better" means coming close to a championship. Did they not have staff with world class experience those previous years? That question is not meant to be answered. I am sure they had plenty of instructors who had world class experience. What makes a great instructing team is great instructors. Magic of Mobile may have some people on their staff no one has ever heard of, or people who have never marched corps before and have only taught bands, but if they're great educators and have the right information and can share that information effectively, then it doesn't really matter. Honestly, few names ring bells in my head on their team, but that doesn't really matter. But back on topic, it looks like these guys are going in the right direction. It will be interesting to see news from their audition camps.

That week it was a very tight race between BDB, SCVC, and Surf and even a tight one between the next bottom 4: Teal, OC, Spokane, and Citations. Teal flipflopped with OC, the top three were incredibly tight and anything could and did happen, and Spokane and Citations flipped spots too. At Quarters everyone deserved their placement as they did in semis and even finals, that day, everyone deserved their placements. Overall placements are hard to argue over because it is the sum of all judges opinions. Maybe if you wanted to argue Teal or Surf's brass score or something that is almost arguable because those always change from judge to judge, day by day. There is more of a chance to get jipped in one caption than to get jipped in an entire overall performance. even then... its still a tough argument. Congrats to everyone who competed this season, it was a VERY exciting one!

Obviously. I'm not saying it is outrageous that no announcements have been made. Just seeing if anyone has the scoop on their plans to pull in a lot of membership from one of the hardest places it is to pull membership from...

So I've done as much web searching as possible to gather info about the Canadian corps programs for 2009. This is a summary of what I have found. I also have added some questions in there for any of those people who think they can answer them. If you have any extra info or answers to my questions, go for it and post. 1) Les Stentor's Website has been spiffed up a bit from the last time I checked (sometime in June). It has some photos and the like from their tour this past summer. There doesn't seem to be any news on their 2009 season or recruiting plans but I presume they have plans to put out a corps next season again. 2) Dutch Boy has yet again returned from another competitively successful season. I had a chance to meet a bunch of the kids while they were on tour this summer and all spirits were really high. I remember reading about Dutch Boy admins trying to put together some sort of program meant to reach out and help other Canadian corps grow both financially and in membership. Are there anymore details on this? Is Dutch in touch with other corps already trying to make a difference for next season? What are some of Dutch's strategies to try to strengthen the activity in Canada? 3) It seems as though Strutters is trying to put together a corps again. It looks like it is geared towards very young individuals though. Their website says, "We are recruiting members aged 6-13 for brass, percussion, and from 4-13 for colorguard/dance." This doesn't seem like a corps they would put out for Open Class competition but it looks like they're at least trying to get the community interested again in hopes to someday put themselves on the field of competition again. Their open house was actually yesterday. Any news on how it went? 4) Allegiance Elite seemed to try to put out a corps last season but for whatever reason wasn't able to fully follow through. If I remember correctly there wasn't much buzz or news on dcp about them at all during Winter/Spring of last season even though in actuality the organization was not dead. I also remember listening to a Field Pass where the guest speaker mentioned Allegiance Elite and Blue Saints were trying to put corps together again for a DCI evaluation for 2008. I checked out AE's website today and they had rehearsals scheduled until May of last spring. Will AE be trying to pull something together again this season? Any news? 5) I don't have much on HYPE but the burning question in a lot of people's minds are, will they try to field again? I heard membership in the hornline was the big issue for the corps last spring. Have there been huge recruiting plans made? I am wishing them the best! 6) Steel Town Brass was put on hold until this September. Does the co-ed product of the Bandettes have plans for some intense recruiting this fall in the Ontario/Michigan border area? Anything on these guys? My hopes are that all of these programs are steadily growing stronger and I wish them all luck in their endeavors this upcoming season, whether it is putting out a competitive corps or laying under the radar and building a stronger foundation a future come back.

to be honest with you, i think you have SOME valid points however i do not agree with your level of concern. a lot of these concerns sound like the issues many parents have before sending their first child off to college. Also, college usually brings up the other big concern of drug and alcohol abuse, and i cant say that this concern should even be remotely as large for corps as it should be for college. Even that shouldn't be a concern for parents for college because chances are your son has already rolled a joint and shared some of dad's beer with at least one of his friends while in high school. Also, athletes go through an equal amount of wear and tear on their joints. Every 14 year old has had a visual experience MUCH more explicit than seeing some colorguard girls wearing sports bras and rolled up short-shorts. Showering together not acceptable? I gather you mean same-sex showering together? Really? Unacceptable? Should everyone have to put on a full one piece bathing suit to clean themselves off because I assure you that won't get you clean. one member said 90% of the corps hooked up? Which corps was that because apparently i missed out on a good time! That is exaggerated beyond belief. One person's opinion or experience does not reflect the entire activity's participants. The typical 15 year old boy tries to hook up with his new girlfriend 100% of the time when his parents finally leave the room. Try that for statistics. Drum corps is a growing up experience. Corps builds Character. Kids need it now-a-days. Not many activities offer character in the magnitude that corps does. I wouldn't trade the character and drive i got from corps for a 100% perfectly wear-and-tear free knee joint ANY DAY. I am sure a lot of people would agree. There is much more to it than what the naked eye can see.

How is the recovery for these two corps going? Any word on their return in the near future? I am aware that CS say they will be returning for 09 and have done recruiting already but is there any additional positive news in regards to their return that their website does not include? It sounded like when Fever went inactive the amount of time needed to recover could have spanned more than a year... did they pull it all together faster than expected? Hope to see them on the field again in 09 with a stronger foundation to stand on!

agreed. if this corps plans a full touring i completely understand why they would have a large fee like this. to argue that most world class corps dont even charge this much... is sort of silly. its not as much of a long shot as you all think. do i agree with the full touring though? um... maybe not but who am i to say a corps should not do a full tour? if they can manage it they have the right to do it. we all know too little about this new corps right now to judge anything they are planning. the director seems very optimistic and driven which can also lead to great things. it means he is probably willing to work around any situation to make sure the corps fields and has a great summer. yes it could lead to bad things if there is poor planning but we all have no idea what has been planned by him or the corps' board of directors. everyone should chill and see what happens. no one will genuinely listen to a bunch of invisible people on a message board if you give suggestions on how to "not screw up." I bet this director has had telephone or in-person talks with other people with much experience. time will tell.

i assume this is just a joke. its obviously impossible to read sarcasm on threads. it would be sick though if the state of alaska managed to put out a competitive open class corps. 80ish members sounds realistic if they have a VERY good recruiting program. i doubt there are many marching bands up there so that would be the biggest task at hand most likely. that and getting an experienced staff from the local region.

Well they're not going to have a separate show for International Division with only 2 corps heh. Maybe Stragnas will compete in Open Class though? It all depends on if they follow typical DCI regulations and guidelines.