AHH What to do...

[In Charge]

Anytime we plan events such as a trip to watch WGI reginals or to see DCI or even to go to a clinic my seniors seem to blow it off and find excusses not to go. They have no idea what is outside our circute nor do they seem to care. They say they want to be good and work hard but it all talk no action. They would rather have fun and mess around at rehearsals and blame everyone else for not having a good show. This past WG season they complained the show was to easy yet it was never clean and they made the same mistakes over and over and over no matter how many times we corrected it. How do we get them to see the big picture? How do we change these attitudes and keep it from running of on our underclassmen??? We are all so frusterated with them right now.

[In Charge]

Sorry about my spelling....I'm so angry I can't see it spell!

[Will]

Well, first off you are not alone. I had a group that was full of 10 seniors (winter guard 2006 season). We gave them a great show, good work and all they had to do was sell it. And they did! UNTIL WGI - they suddenly got this "we don't care" attitude and they blew up in Sch A prelims. They came off the floor laughing and thinking it was funny that they had done so bad. Needless to say, we were glad when they all left.

BUT in your case, I would suggest sitting them all down and asking them why they are there. What is it that has kept them in guard so long. Actually, I would meet with them one on one (that way they aren't influenced by their peers). OR you could just get rid of them all; but hopefully that will be a last resort.

Hang in there!!

[dancedance]

I say this respectfully, because I really do understand how hard it is to teach these kids and keep them motivated.... but if this has become the environment on your guard, you might also have to examine how you (and the staff) may have allowed this behavior to fester. Could it be possible that their attitudes have beaten you down over the years - and now you've grown somewhat "tolerant" to it?

You should know that there are places where this type of behavior wouldn't ever be tolerated. Where a director would soon throw a kid off the guard who even remotely displayed a careless attitude (or in the case of the 2nd email - god forbid laughed their way off the floor after a disappointing performance). Eeek. I'm so sorry to hear that happened - how disheartening.

Some things to consider - -

Do you have punishments that fit the crime? ie, are they taken out of parts of the show (even temporarily?) Are they given a verbal warning or are they written up.... punishable by pulling them from shows and eventually expelling them from the team? Do you make them sign a Code of Conduct that clearly outlines expectations, and how punishments will be executed and when? ...Maybe you should consider it - it would sure send a strong message.

My guess is you put in a LOT of time into teaching these kids, ....you deserve respect. Respect means they show up, shut up, work hard and always always put in 100%. How frustrating for you if you're getting anything less than that from your kids... but unfortunately - the only one who is going to change that environment is YOU.

Good luck with it.

[In Charge]

Thanks for the advice. Dance Dance this is my 2nd year at this school. I took over right after band camp last year no rules or policys where in place. This year I have a handbook and code of conduct that they must sign so I do hope that helps. Most of the issues is that the old instructor was never around and it was a free for all. We are hoping to change that. Thank again for the replies!

[epwtrguard05]

I say this respectfully, because I really do understand how hard it is to teach these kids and keep them motivated.... but if this has become the environment on your guard, you might also have to examine how you (and the staff) may have allowed this behavior to fester. Could it be possible that their attitudes have beaten you down over the years - and now you've grown somewhat "tolerant" to it?

You should know that there are places where this type of behavior wouldn't ever be tolerated. Where a director would soon throw a kid off the guard who even remotely displayed a careless attitude (or in the case of the 2nd email - god forbid laughed their way off the floor after a disappointing performance). Eeek. I'm so sorry to hear that happened - how disheartening.

Some things to consider - -

Do you have punishments that fit the crime? ie, are they taken out of parts of the show (even temporarily?) Are they given a verbal warning or are they written up.... punishable by pulling them from shows and eventually expelling them from the team? Do you make them sign a Code of Conduct that clearly outlines expectations, and how punishments will be executed and when? ...Maybe you should consider it - it would sure send a strong message.

My guess is you put in a LOT of time into teaching these kids, ....you deserve respect. Respect means they show up, shut up, work hard and always always put in 100%. How frustrating for you if you're getting anything less than that from your kids... but unfortunately - the only one who is going to change that environment is YOU.

Good luck with it.

I totally understand and agree with what you are saying. However, no disrespect intended but it seems to be a common thing nowadays with kids. My kids included.

Have you experienced similar situations with the kids you work with? I know I have. I do have all those wonderful things implimented into my organization that you mentioned. It doesn't seem to work. They still have that carefree attitude. My problem is, it's never the same kid! It bounces around from member to member on any given rehearsal night. Most nights, they are absolutely brillant. Other nights, far from stellar! I can never understand it.

I honestly believe it's the kids. For I'm still trying to figure it out. They are given a wonderful show to perform every season. Myself and my staff work really hard to do so. It always falls short come championships! They blame it on everything but themselves and most of the time they blame it on nothing at all. Oh well, we finished fifth, again!

At the beginning of every season, I sit down with my girls and go over everything. What's expected of them, how they will act. What are the goals we are setting for ourselves this year? Are they obtainable and can they be achieved? The list goes on. They are always "gun ho" at first but eventually it falls by the wayside. I truly believe it's not me or my staff because none of us are egotistical at all.

I have been banging my head against the walls trying to come up with a solution. I really don't know if one exists! My kids are involved with everything and anything on the MS/HS level. I can't stop them from doing so. If I do, they would just as well quit. Believe me, they have! When you're working with a smaller group, I floor anywhere from 12 to 16 girls, where's the answer in doing so?

The key, I think is dedication and commitment or lack there of. They may not have it or understand it completely. My question would be ...... How do you get them to truly understand it?

Edited July 11, 2007 by epwtrguard05

[Musical_Spinner]

When it comes to placement, I wouldn't be extremely worried if your kids got 5th place a few times, or every year. I'd be worried about if they did their best first, then worry about the placement (or not). Everyone's best isn't first place, I mean, take a look at how many champions you actually get at Wgi (6 total for guard). If you feel a better commitment can enhance your placement or product, tell them so. If they don't take notice or they don't motivate themselves, then they just aren't a championship kind of guard and they are there just to have fun. If they complain they aren't placing well, challenge them to change it by improving.

I always tell anyone in guard I am working with "The better you become, the more fun you will have" and it's completely true. If they put in the hard work in rehearsal and practice at home with that in mind the product on the floor will be better. And we all love working at something that is hard and actually achieving it on the floor. All you can do as an instructor is to remind them that practice leads to more fun (sounds weird, but it does). If they don't take notice or still don't care, it's time to challenge them and their commitment. Ask them if they really want to be there, if they say no, let them off the team or kick them off, they aren't doing you any good. Sounds extreme right? It's worked wonders for the guard I was in in HS.

Eventually my HS guard ended up with people who wanted to be there, even if they were having bad days, they still had that commitment to push through for themselves and their team. What's even better was the guard grew from 12 to 26 in two years......

[epwtrguard05]

I don't want to come off sounding like "placement" is my only concern. The truth is, it's not. If it was I would have moved on years ago. I have been in charge of the same group since 1992, when I was first hired by my Board Of Education. Not only as Director but Instructor and Designer as well. I love my girls and love doing what I'm doing!

Over the years, my kids have done very well. Quite a few top three finishes and have won their share of championships. I guess I'm trying to say, times have changed. My kids have changed and I noticed it seems to be present within a lot of organizations. With my girls, it appears to have happened over the past few years.

There seems to be something missing. I can't pinpoint exactly what it is but it's there. Whether it's commitment or dedication? Who knows? I wish I had the answer because I feel they are being cheated. Even though my girls are cheating themselves!

Thoughts, opinions, feedback ........ would love to hear from others who are experiencing the same! Or have experienced it in the past. Is there really a solution?

[CSHSGuardInstructor]

I've been there too.

I had 21 kids last season, 11 of which were seniors. Of the seniors, a few had become indifferent to rehearsing and saw it as social time. (Grr!) I had a few kids, mainly captains, who were hardcore and used peer pressure to try to help the less excited ones focus. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not so much.

When I felt the attitudes sliding, I'd say something like, "You think (insert name of guard we look up to here) practices like this?" Again, sometimes that worked, not always. I totally agree with the above poster about "The better you become, the more fun you'll have." Can you set goals for the practices when you feel the mood changing? I sometimes tell the kids that if we have a really productive practice, I'll let them do a run-thru using a different piece of music than the actual show music. ("Sexy Back" played a few times last year...)

I had a few kids last year that I swear were in guard simply because they liked the uniforms. Luckily, they ended up getting motivated late in the season by our moderate sucess in our circuit and because they enjoyed the show. Hang in there. Remember, if you're not having fun at practice...the kids probably aren't either.

[epwtrguard05]

WOW, sounds all too familiar! Right down to the uniform comment!

We are having fun at practice. They loved the show and had a blast performing it. At rehearsals, I even filled a blank a few times because it was a real fun show to do. My girls thought that was great. Next rehearsal ................ you never would have known.

Now. getting back to the orignal poster's question........... How do you go about changing their attitudes?

Can it be done? How do you make them really understand it? I truly believe it's the lack of understandment. Again, all to common with kids nowadays!