troon8 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 This post probably reflects my general ignorance when it comes to the judging system, but please don't take it as sarcasm. How is (or will) narration effecting judging? Who, exactly (if anyone) is commenting about it on tapes and scoring sheets? Clearly it's not a visual caption...but what then, Music GE? Indiv. Performance? I'm not at all suggesting that there needs to be a new caption for it, but how are adjudicators interpreting this with the current system of scoring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueemrld8 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 This post probably reflects my general ignorance when it comes to the judging system, but please don't take it as sarcasm. How is (or will) narration effecting judging? Who, exactly (if anyone) is commenting about it on tapes and scoring sheets? Clearly it's not a visual caption...but what then, Music GE? Indiv. Performance? I'm not at all suggesting that there needs to be a new caption for it, but how are adjudicators interpreting this with the current system of scoring? Honestly, this question had been around a while. From what i can tell from other posts....... NO ONE KNOWS. :P I think that is one of the reasons it is such a hotly contested subject. Maybe in GE???? (just a guess) Don't worry, im sure someone who has been involved longer then i have will know the answer. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS0527 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I don't see how it could be evaluated anywhere other than Music Effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RsD Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 (edited) I don't know either. Personally, I think that the fact that nobody knows is a large part of why this keeps being such a topic on this board. As long as there exists the possibilty (or the belief) that amplification can only help a show, since there are no 'penalties' for bad amplification, this debate will rage. AS AN EXAMPLE: If I were to learn that if the Music Effect judge felt that the Cadets narration was over the top and took away from the effect of the music, that he could score them lower as he saw fit, then I for one would feel better with narration being allowed. Maybe he already can and we just don't know. I for one would like to. Edit: Changed 'narration' in paragraph one to 'amplification,' since I feel that feedbacking pits should be subject to the same scoring wrath as Story Time at the Rose Bowl. Edited August 4, 2007 by OUTrumprano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueemrld8 Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I don't know either. Personally, I think that the fact that nobody knows is a large part of why this keeps being such a topic on this board. As long as there exists the possibilty (or the belief) that amplification can only help a show, since there are no 'penalties' for bad amplification, this debate will rage.AS AN EXAMPLE: If I were to learn that if the Music Effect judge felt that the Cadets narration was over the top and took away from the effect of the music, that he could score them lower as he saw fit, then I for one would feel better with narration being allowed. Maybe he already can and we just don't know. I for one would like to. Edit: Changed 'narration' in paragraph one to 'amplification,' since I feel that feedbacking pits should be subject to the same scoring wrath as Story Time at the Rose Bowl. I guess the biggest thing is for the "Powers That Be" to FORMALLY decide a scale of judging, and let us fans/members in on it. Even if it is highly subjective, it would be a place to start. (like the use of "amplification." In my opinion, quality of sound should be encorporated along with how it is used.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Honest to goodness, no one's sure. Theoretically any judging category can take on a comment, and that usually ends up with no one jumping in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Depends on the context. I would say generally music effect and music ensemble Although in 2005 there were percussion judges that took off points when the Cadets drum speak wasn't clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troon8 Posted August 5, 2007 Author Share Posted August 5, 2007 My heartfelt thanks to you all for replying, I had a hunch that no one's really figured out exactly where or how this fits into the grand scheme of judging yet, although I'd say percussion judges making note of drumspeak (as dbc 03 pointed out) does make a modest amount of sense. I think the trickier question yet to be adequeatly delt with will be judging vocal narratives. Not just who will do it, but how. Will they eventually be trained to look at enunciation, projection, & clarity? Voice acting ability? Emotional depth & sincerity? Knobs and buttons on the amps set up well? I'm not saying this would be either a positive nor negative direction for the sport to be heading in, but it seems somehow less-then-ideal to NOT judge vocals placed on the field, (since lord knows they have such a dramatic affect on how audiences percieve shows) though of course we're in such new territory that no system is yet in place for it. For example, many (though no, not all) people have commented how much they love the Cadets current show but dislike the narration, and keep asking, "Why don't they just take out the speaking?" But with scores and placements so high right now, (and fans being far from unanimous on the issue,) And while I'm sure he's aware of some of these comments, I can see how George Hopkins is probably mostly thinking it ain't broke, don't fix it. It may be alienating some fans, but competitively, it seems to be working out just fine, and I highly doubt the kids marching in the corps this year are on the verge of mutiny, so I just don't think it's going to happen for this year's show. On the other hand, if I was a director getting honest critique from judges about how the narration was affecting my show (of course, an extremely subjective thing!) I'd probably take those comments to heart. I wonder if we'd hear narration being used more like Bluecoats 07 & BD 06, and less like BD 05 & Cadets 07 if this were the case. Assuming that for better or worse, it's here to stay in some form or another, I do sincerely hope that the corps that DO decide to pursue narration in the future take it even more seriously. Maybe they are and I just don't know about it...for example, I'm sure they practice it again and again, and experiment with slight variations, but is anyone SERIOUSLY coaching the Cadet's speakers (or any corp's, for that matter) on how they talk? Do they warm themselves up vocally without mics before each show? Are they mindful of breathing, enunciation, projection, motivation, etc? (Please, if someone actually does have the answer to these, I'd be sincerely intrested to know! I'd love to watch a Cadets rehearsal myself to find out sometime.) There's so much more the performers need to be aware of than just how to hold the mic! I have no doubt that all corps that use vocals will be working hard on them up until Finals, but I think that if corps made a concerted effort to engage in the right TRAINING for their vocalists at the SAME LEVEL of demand and detail that they do with music and marching, the results would show, and probably win over a larger percentage of the audience. In short, if some corps are determined to use narration, I don't think it'd hurt anyone to try to make it the best performed narration possible. I'm sure that the kids are trying right now, but to be perfectly honest, I fear they need more support (from their staff, that is) to really make narration live up to the potential that some designers think it could reach. By and large, we're just not there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Time Fan Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 We went over this topic pretty thoroughly here http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...howtopic=101449 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troon8 Posted August 5, 2007 Author Share Posted August 5, 2007 We went over this topic pretty thoroughly herehttp://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...howtopic=101449 Aha. Indeed. Knew I couldn't have possibly been the first one to bring up that aspect of the issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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