dsb2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 (edited) Good point. But I bet that some corps push the envelope of solvency each year at a time, eeking out that national tour and then working on the budget for the next year. If there were a viable regional infrastructure, I bet that corps could plan farther ahead to attack a national tour every other year or every third or fourth year, or whatever made sense to them, knowing that they have a safe harbour in their regional tour. High schools do this all the time, competing in BOA regionals (for example) and then going to nationals every fourth year or whatever their budget allows. Now, I believe that some corps don't see that as a viable option. Falling back to regional is a risk as you basically have to figure it out on your own and even then, you might find out that you would have been better off taking the year off and touring national the next year, making that the safer path right now. Well again, when we are talking about corps who have already bitten off more than they can chew and are now in trouble, we are talking about a scenario where it may be too late. I think my point is more that corps who start their first year in World Class touring full time may be making the big mistake. The way I see it (and I didn't always see it this way believe it or not), no corps should start their first year in World Class doing a full tour unless they are so rich they could pay Blue Devil's bills as well as their own. And even then, it may be wise to at least do one regional or partial touring year anyway just to pinch and save all you can. Edited October 16, 2007 by dsb2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 True, but I'm looking at this from a corps directors POV who has no idea how many potential members will be around for the regional season. The "rock" is going inactive for the season to get finances and other things together. The "hard place" is spending the money just to find out if there will be enough members to field a corps. And if not enough members can be found to do regional then the corps is that much further in the financial hole.Didn't say I liked it, just spent enough time with a corps with red ink to understand the reasoning. I gotcha -- and like I have alluded to in other posts above -- the problem is that right now, SW has to go out on a limb and make that determination for themselves. Quite a risky proposition, as you say. But if there were already a regional tour infrastructure, then corps would have a little better understanding of what they could expect from a Regional tour experience for a year or two. Granted, none of this helps SW now, but if we don't start building that infrastructure now, imo, we'll be having these same conversations about corps after corps into the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 True, but I'm looking at this from a corps directors POV who has no idea how many potential members will be around for the regional season. The "rock" is going inactive for the season to get finances and other things together. The "hard place" is spending the money just to find out if there will be enough members to field a corps. And if not enough members can be found to do regional then the corps is that much further in the financial hole. Again, these are not the scenarios I'm refering to (though I know you weren't directing this at me). My point in a nutshell is that if both "the rock" and "the hard place" had started off touring regionally to begin with, they may not be in the financial situation they are now in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Well again, when we are talking about corps who have already bitten off more than they can chew and are now in trouble, we are talking about a scenario where it may be too late. I think my point is more that corps who start their first year in World Class touring full time may be making the big mistake. The way I see it (and I didn't always see it this way believe it or not), no corps should start their first year in World Class doing a full tour unless they are so rich they could pay Blue Devil's bills as well as their own. And even then, it may be wise to at least do one regional or partial touring year anyway just to pinch and save all you can. Yeah, I agree with what you're saying. My only point of clarification is that what I was saying was that if there already were a viable regional tour option out there, then maybe corps wouldn't get so deep in the first place because they could have fallen back on the limited tour earlier and easier. Currently, they don't really feel they have that option so they eek out every full tour they have until the well runs dry, leaving them in the position you describe. That's all :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueemrld8 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 So it may not be much of a viable option right now for a corps like SW, but I would submit that DCI should make it a priority to create regional tours by encouraging the formation of more local/regional corps to begin to create this infrastructure. Sure, this won't help SW now, but maybe in 10 years or so this will be a viable and attractive option to the corps struggling to meet the demands of a full national tour. I like this idea... makes in easier to travel between the two touring modes without loosing face so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Yeah, I agree with what you're saying. My only point of clarification is that what I was saying was that if there already were a viable regional tour option out there, then maybe corps wouldn't get so deep in the first place because they could have fallen back on the limited tour earlier and easier. That's exactly my point. And that option IS available. Corps just aren't taking advantage of the option while they have the chance and are waiting until it is too late and folding is all they have left. Currently, they don't really feel they have that option so they eek out every full tour they have until the well runs dry, leaving them in the position you describe. That's all :) Right, and I'm saying that's where I think they are making their mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I gotcha -- and like I have alluded to in other posts above -- the problem is that right now, SW has to go out on a limb and make that determination for themselves. Quite a risky proposition, as you say.But if there were already a regional tour infrastructure, then corps would have a little better understanding of what they could expect from a Regional tour experience for a year or two. Granted, none of this helps SW now, but if we don't start building that infrastructure now, imo, we'll be having these same conversations about corps after corps into the future. OK, and I should have said that I was speaking generally and not really in reference to SW. I don't know which Juniors corps are regional so speaking generally is as "deep" as I can go. :( And like has been posted, biggest problem with Junior regionals is the number of corps that are (or are not) nearby. Sounds a lot like the DCA regions where corps go hundreds of miles for a show that might not pay the gas bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I never miss a opportunity to re-post my touring/class idea for DCI: :) (Copied from another thread): I propose only 1 class with three touring models (National, Limited, and Regional). All corps would use the same sheets and all would compete against each other. National Corps: Similar to most Div I corps now. These corps would tour nationally. They would compete in all 4 Regionals. They would most likely (although not necessarily) attract members nationally, like many (most?) do now. Why would a corps choose this model? More competitive opportunities against the widest range of "opponents" to drive towards the Championships, more visibility = better recruiting opportunities, better marketing opportunities, etc. Limited Tour Corps: Would only compete in show within a 2 day drive from home. Would only compete in 2 Regionals -- their own and the next closest region. Would compete in Finals and be seeded appropriately below the National corps at Quarters or Prelims. Members would likely be a mix of national and local. Would still see a variety of corps, but might not compete against every other Limited or Regional corps over the course a given season. Why? Easier on budget, may help recruit members who can't/don't want to do full tour. Regional Tour Corps: Would only compete close to home - within a days drive. Would only compete in 1 Regional. Could complete in Finals if desired/budgeted and if so, would be seeded below Limited Tour corps for Quarters/Prelims. Would not compete against other Regional corps during the season and may not face all other corps, as well. Members would likely be local (although certainly not necessary) Why? Budget, local member availability, etc. Corps could switch from one model to the next each year, in steps of 1 up of down (Regional to Limited, Limited to National or the opposite -- NOT Regional to National in 1 year). So corps could be generally LImited or Regional, but budget to work up to National once every four years, for example. All corps would compete against each other at all shows on the same sheets. All shows (as best as possible) would be a mix of National, Limited and Regional corps. Most Finals winners, I believe, would likely come from the National Tour ranks because of their increased opportunites for competition, competitive atmosphere, judges feedback, etc. But not necessarily. Once Quarters and Prelims are seeded, top 17 perform in inverse order at Semis and Top 12 at Finals, just like now, no matter what touring model they came from. I believe that most corps would strive to be a National model because this offers the highest level of competition, the best opportunites for marketing and recruiting (read: $$$), and the best opportunity to experience the activity for the members. But all corps will be able to find a level appropriate for their budget and growth plans, yet still have the opportunity to compete against the "big boys" and compare your progress accrodingly. I believe this would also allow for many more startups to not have to commit themselves in too deeply too quickly, yet still afford that top level competition that startups crave. Obviously, there are many deatils to work out -- this is just a first blush summary of the plan. So please do not dismiss this en masse because of 1 or 2 flaws or things that are not yet addressed. But feel free to add concerns or additions to the model to see if we can flush this out a little and see if any or all of it is a practical/feasible/workable solution. Thanks for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 (edited) OK, and I should have said that I was speaking generally and not really in reference to SW. I don't know which Juniors corps are regional so speaking generally is as "deep" as I can go. :( I believe this is the correct # of regional/partial touring corps (someone correct me if I make a mistake or leave someone out). Regional/partial touring corps in World Class Academy Pacific Crest Mandarins Regional/partial touring corps in World Class All of them. And like has been posted, biggest problem with Junior regionals is the number of corps that are (or are not) nearby. Sounds a lot like the DCA regions where corps go hundreds of miles for a show that might not pay the gas bill. The difference between DCI and DCA is that DCI will most likely always have at least SOME full touring corps. Those corps (even if it were eventually only limited to the top 5 in World Class) would be the "headliners" (so to speak) at all shows and as long as DCI can creatively schedule one or two of those at each show, the rest could stay close to home and if they played it right, it may even cause a lot of shows to have more participating corps beause DCI would not have to always chase everyone down to find out who is close enough to show up to a local show. Edited October 16, 2007 by dsb2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueemrld8 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I never miss a opportunity to re-post my touring/class idea for DCI: :) LOL I have noticed that! :) Anyway... here is something else that just struck me... If a corp. is switching back and forth every few years between National and Regional, what about member loyalty? Ex. I have a friend who lives quite a few states away from his Corp. Going from National to Regional and then back again would really mess up this factor. Wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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