drumcat Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 Sure there is. History shows that corps that have done it have a strong longevity.Yeah but you don't need the fees as much if you are not touring as much. The higher tuition in full touring corps is designed to help the corps afford the tour. Like I said regarding the show fees...if you are not touring as much, you don't need it as much. Academy has proven that theory false. I have two answers for that question. Answer#1 - The healthiest corps in the activity (like the top 5) don't need to. They are fine to tour full time. I'm not talking about them. Answer#2 - Check the books of corps that are touring regionally and you will find that they ARE some of the healthiest corps in the entire activity. I talked to someone last month in fact who told me that Academy has the most impressive financial record in the activity right now. Don't know if that statement was somewhat hyperbolic but I will say it's believable. And not once have I used Academy as an example. They never went back from a full tour to a regional one. That's why their example isn't applicable AT ALL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 That's exactly my point. And that option IS available. Corps just aren't taking advantage of the option while they have the chance and are waiting until it is too late and folding is all they have left. Well that's just it -- I'm not sure that that option IS available. Not to the degree I am envisioning anyway. The West Coast corps have been able to do this a little bit because they compete against each other for a month. Academy was able to remain regional and still get enough big shows to be competitive because all the big boys were heading out to CA late in the season. Not sure this would have worked out for them so well if the Finals were in Foxboro!!!! How could the Troopers, for example, even consider a regional tour? Unless they based themselves in Indy and only competed in the MW. Otherwise, they just wouldn't get to enough shows. Maybe this would work for SW for a year, but it's a risk as has been described by another poster. Other corps would face similar individual (risky) decisions. I think the option is there is theory, but in practice I think a better regional infrastructure needs to be in place -- created and encouraged by DCI to cultivate and grow local/regional corps and tours to augment the national tours conducted by the big boys. btw -- I'm not really disagreeing with you, I just think that the whole environment could be made more hospitable for corps to easily entertain these options. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Showing my Senior... ooops All Age roots again after reading Limas and dsb2007s last few posts. FWIW, reminds me of what DCA started a few years ago with the Class A (small corps group) and Mini corps (stand still). Idea is to help out three types of corps: 1) New corps starting out - less expenses with less equipment, etc, etc 2) Older corps having problems or off year - still have way to compete and stay active 3) Corps that want to stay small for various reasons Just throwing out another set of ideas.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 (edited) And not once have I used Academy as an example. They never went back from a full tour to a regional one. That's why their example isn't applicable AT ALL. Dude, we addressed this on another thread in the Open Class forum (directed it at you in fact). Academy IS a "regional/partial touring corps" Someone even posted their total number of shows from last year and where they went during the course of the season to prove it. My point is that you SHOULD be using them as an example...even though you aren't. Edited October 16, 2007 by dsb2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Well that's just it -- I'm not sure that that option IS available. Not to the degree I am envisioning anyway. The West Coast corps have been able to do this a little bit because they compete against each other for a month. Academy was able to remain regional and still get enough big shows to be competitive because all the big boys were heading out to CA late in the season. Not sure this would have worked out for them so well if the Finals were in Foxboro!!!! How could the Troopers, for example, even consider a regional tour? Unless they based themselves in Indy and only competed in the MW. Otherwise, they just wouldn't get to enough shows. Maybe this would work for SW for a year, but it's a risk as has been described by another poster. Other corps would face similar individual (risky) decisions. I think the option is there is theory, but in practice I think a better regional infrastructure needs to be in place -- created and encouraged by DCI to cultivate and grow local/regional corps and tours to augment the national tours conducted by the big boys. btw -- I'm not really disagreeing with you, I just think that the whole environment could be made more hospitable for corps to easily entertain these options. :) I understand what you are saying and it does make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 (edited) LOL I have noticed that! :) Anyway... here is something else that just struck me... If a corp. is switching back and forth every few years between National and Regional, what about member loyalty? Ex. I have a friend who lives quite a few states away from his Corp. Going from National to Regional and then back again would really mess up this factor. Wouldn't it? Well, this is a good point. I'm sure that it would affect some corps. I envision though, that over time, the regional and local corps would mostly pull members from their respective areas. Not necessarily, of course, but this would likely evolve. There will always be ring-chasers and/or national tour chasers -- always has been and always will be -- but I think that over time the corps would find a model that works for them and members that fit that model. Sure corps will still fold and have troubles and all that -- as has always been the case (even back in the good ole days :) ). But if we make it easier for corps to start-up and compete long term, then (hopefully) we will add more than we subtract over time and maximize the number of kids involved at all levels .... That is the point, ultimately, right ???? :) Edited October 16, 2007 by Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 Dude, we addressed this on another thread in the Open Class forum (directed it at you in fact). Academy IS a "regional/partial touring corps" Someone even posted their total number of shows from last year and where they went during the course of the season to prove it. My point is that you SHOULD be using them as an example...even though you aren't. If you would read the opening post, you'll see that I'm talking about nationally touring corps that have gone to a regional tour, and that there are none. I understand that Academy is at this point a regional/partial whatever corps, and I'm not disputing it. I was wrong; my source said that in 2006 there was no longer a "designation" of a regional corps, just corps that tour regionally. I also know that Academy turned down the opportunity to go to NorCal in 2007 because of money. I'm also aware, quite aware, that their financial progress has been a sensible one for a long, long time. So here's the point. If you want to hold up Academy as some sort of regional gold standard, why hasn't any nationally-touring corps adopted the model put forth by Academy? Why hasn't any corps reverted to this? Why wouldn't Southwind do a regional touring schedule instead of going inactive if it saves so much money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueemrld8 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Well that's just it -- I'm not sure that that option IS available. Not to the degree I am envisioning anyway. The West Coast corps have been able to do this a little bit because they compete against each other for a month. Academy was able to remain regional and still get enough big shows to be competitive because all the big boys were heading out to CA late in the season. Not sure this would have worked out for them so well if the Finals were in Foxboro!!!! How could the Troopers, for example, even consider a regional tour? Unless they based themselves in Indy and only competed in the MW. Otherwise, they just wouldn't get to enough shows. Maybe this would work for SW for a year, but it's a risk as has been described by another poster. Other corps would face similar individual (risky) decisions. I think the option is there is theory, but in practice I think a better regional infrastructure needs to be in place -- created and encouraged by DCI to cultivate and grow local/regional corps and tours to augment the national tours conducted by the big boys. btw -- I'm not really disagreeing with you, I just think that the whole environment could be made more hospitable for corps to easily entertain these options. :) This would also encourage more partisipation and hopefully lead to a broader fan base.... Solving a few of DCI's problems in the process as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 How could the Troopers, for example, even consider a regional tour? Considering you'd probably have never heard of the Troopers except that they pioneered national touring... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsb2007 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 (edited) If you would read the opening post, you'll see that I'm talking about nationally touring corps that have gone to a regional tour, and that there are none. OK. I understand that Academy is at this point a regional/partial whatever corps, and I'm not disputing it. I was wrong; my source said that in 2006 there was no longer a "designation" of a regional corps, just corps that tour regionally. I also know that Academy turned down the opportunity to go to NorCal in 2007 because of money. I'm also aware, quite aware, that their financial progress has been a sensible one for a long, long time.So here's the point. If you want to hold up Academy as some sort of regional gold standard, why hasn't any nationally-touring corps adopted the model put forth by Academy? Why hasn't any corps reverted to this? Maybe because they haven't figured it out yet. Maybe because they fear losing "status" (even though I think that would be a lame excuse). Maybe because SOME of them (not all of them but the ones who should) don't have enough business sense to do what is right. Why wouldn't Southwind do a regional touring schedule instead of going inactive if it saves so much money? See my last statement. Though in their case...as I said before...it may be too late. Edited October 16, 2007 by dsb2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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