Who is the DCI World Class Business Side Top 12?

[dbc03]

Great topic. Should be explored more though I suspect these private NPs are not interested in opening their books to show how they mangae their cash. Still, they are similar to Symphomy orchestras in that they need a business developer to raise the cash they need since their revenue production falls short of their expenditure need.

I wish DCI would hold clinics and provide technical guidance to all corps on this subject. I have no idea what it costs but I suspect a corps needs about $2-4million annually to operate? Anyone know? A quick and dirty estimate...

25 staff averaged about $25K a year (full time and part time) = $625K

Travel for staff: $500K

Hotels: $500K

Adminstrative Facilities (rent mortgage, et al) $250K a year

Adminstrative Staff: $300K

Practice facilities: $300K

Storage: $200K

Transportation: (No idea here so help me anyone?) $250K a year or maybe just the leasing costs of tour?

Food: $100K

Uniforms and Equipement: ($250K)

That's $3.3M. Wow. And the average corps charges what? $1000 for tour ($135K?)

Some challenges there...

Anyone care to comment?

Practice

$500k for staff travel? Are you serious?

Average staff salary of $25k?

$500k in Hotels?

$20,000 a month renting offices?

You are just making up ridiculously large numbers that have no basis in reality.

[drumcat]

$500k for staff travel? Are you serious?

Average staff salary of $25k?

$500k in Hotels?

$20,000 a month renting offices?

You are just making up ridiculously large numbers that have no basis in reality.

I think it was just an educated guess... don't jump him.

[dbc03]

I think it was just an educated guess... don't jump him.

More likely an uneducated guess. I'm not trying to jump him, just pointing out that his numbers are pretty ridiculous

[Tom Brace]

Well maybe DCI needs more business majors infused into the activity than band directors. Great comments from the group though would be interested to hear a top 10 director weigh in on where they stand. While I polayed drum corps at the highest levels (BD, 27 Cadets) I think I have forgotten how thin the annual budgets are, but my new perspective is that there needs to be a more sophisticated management structure encouraged in the DCI ranks of all levels. Financial solvency could do wonders for many of the kids experiences.

So, a Business Developer would have to raise about $100 - $150K a month to finance an corps and their own salary. Any Fund Raisers out there care to comment on how achievable that is?

those figures ($100 - $150K a month) are impossible unless you are talking about a community based youth arts organization.

Then you have lesson and ensemble fees. Year around funding. Appearance fees for your ensembles year round. It's really a much better model than trying to runa drum corps that only performs for 9 weeks max. Plus, the more the community is involved, the more you can gain support from local arts organizations.

[gbass598]

I remember the Golden Lancers rise in DCM to the championship...only to have their director decide he was bored with drum corps and he folded them the next year.

I wouldn't say that was the case. I don't know the details because I was gone from the corps by that time but I believe the corps dissappeared because money was spent that we didn't have. In the summer of '96 the corps got its own bus (albeit an old bus) and new uniforms. The percussion equipment we played on was old and beat up. In fact, our snare drums were borrowed from a local high school.

As much as I enjoyed the opportunity to be in a corps that made top 25 with only 44 members, I just don't believe the corps was set up for long term financial success. Pittsburgh hasn't had great success in supporting drum corps and indoor programs. Outside of a couple of good programs, the musical performing arts programs in Western PA are a bit lacking in quality.

[Kansasfan]

For those interested in budgets, Guidestar.org allows you to look at the IRS Form 990's that all non-profits are required to file. You have ot register, but it's free and easy to do.

The 990s generally are 12-18 months old, but give an idea of what kind of money is involved in running a corps or Youth Arts Organization. The last time I looked at them (a while ago) the top four in total revenue were BD, SCV, Glassmen, and Colts. I suspect that those four would still be at or near the top, which is consistent with the OP regarding who are the Top 12 in "business performance."

[randomnoise]

Interesting dynamic on this thread.

You've got O.P. and others making estimates at the high end and others saying how cheaply you can do drum corps.

As someone who has been on the board of a DCI champion, while at the same time running a DCA Finalist, there is a wide range. BUT - the top DCI corps need a million or more per year. Probably over $1.5 by now.

Our DCA corps costs in the $300k range to put on the field for a year, and believe me, that is bare bones - staff salaries kept low, only 5 days of travel, and little or no equipment purchases. Renegades' budget was actually less than the budget of the High School band I was teaching at the time.

Drum corps is not cheap! Especially if you pay your staff anywhere near what they are worth.

I agree with O.P.'s comment about business folks needing to get involved. One of the major reasons that BD is successful because the director has a finance degree. And he is always on top of the business side. A top-notch development person is very important, as are recurring revenue streams (bingo, souvies, etc.).

[Kansasfan]

I neglected to add in my post that the revenues and expenses listed in Guidestar filings for each of the four corps I mentioned (BD, SCV, Glassmen, Colts) ran from $900K to $1.6M and that was for tax years that ended in some cases over 24 months ago. So I'd agree with comments above that a ballpark budget to run a Top 12 corps today is +/- $1M.

Note that the budget numbers in the Guidestar filings include all costs for the organizations - winter programs, school and community programs, off-season events, etc. - note just the summer touring corps.

[danielray]

Don't know about the University model, but I would guess that MOST school districts are cutting back on the arts and humanities sides of their budgets IN THE SCHOOLS THEMSELVES.

To presume that they would be willing to fund an extra-curricular of this nature seems to be unrealistic.

Add to that, the liability exposure of the travel, practices, etc. and the notion of non-degreed faculty, that would be necessary to provide a large enough staff to teach a drum corps (with all the emphasis on "highly qualified" faculty, and No Child Left Behind type stuff) would seem to make this pretty much of a non-starter with most school boards.

I'm not saying that this is for every district, but there are quite enough that could get behind this, particularly in the communities where the band programs have considerable funding from the community and are not entirely dependent on government funding.

The school district that I went to high school in (Clovis Unified - California), for example, could EASILY support a regional drum corps.

They have the equipment, the facilities, the staff (many people employed by the district are already either teaching or writing for top corps or judging during the summer). These bands all have their own semi-trucks, the school districts have buses perfect for traveling regional distances that are just sitting idle during the summer.

This is a perfect opportunity.

In that area, the OBVIOUS other massive opportunity would be a drum corps connected with Fresno State. That's an absolute no brainer.

BTW - Valley Fever, if you're listening, move south just a bit... If a pool of hundreds of talented kids could to drive less than 20 minutes to rehearsal, compared to an hour and a half, to participate in a regional corps, your turnout could explode. This distance doesn't make much of a difference if you're one of the big boys, but for a regional corps, this shift could make all the difference in the world.

[O.P.]

Interesting dynamic on this thread.

You've got O.P. and others making estimates at the high end and others saying how cheaply you can do drum corps.

As someone who has been on the board of a DCI champion, while at the same time running a DCA Finalist, there is a wide range. BUT - the top DCI corps need a million or more per year. Probably over $1.5 by now.

Our DCA corps costs in the $300k range to put on the field for a year, and believe me, that is bare bones - staff salaries kept low, only 5 days of travel, and little or no equipment purchases. Renegades' budget was actually less than the budget of the High School band I was teaching at the time.

Drum corps is not cheap! Especially if you pay your staff anywhere near what they are worth.

I agree with O.P.'s comment about business folks needing to get involved. One of the major reasons that BD is successful because the director has a finance degree. And he is always on top of the business side. A top-notch development person is very important, as are recurring revenue streams (bingo, souvies, etc.).

Thanks Chris, but I also wanted to make the point that the activity needs to start to look at annual budgets for what it takes to do it well, not to scrape by. The fact that some people see my budget as high is indicative of the state of mind and expectations. I thought my salary estimate was low. If the activity is going to grow, and I am not talking creatively here, but demographically, financially, and socially, it needs to attract more people. Being able to pay show designers good salaries, and support staffs livable wages is critical. Maybe health benefits and a retirment 401(k), etc. It should all translate to a this being a vocation as opposed to an avocation.

Another interesting data point would be how many of the top twelve corps' staff have a full time job not related to their drum corps work? Anyone want to venture a guess? Of the design teams (Brass, Percussion and Visual) how many lsit on their taxz returns their occupation as designer, musician, etc.

The late great Jerry Seawright used to tell us all the time that we (BD staff) possessed a product/service that we should insist people pay for. Instead, in the 70's and 80's we were so happy to get a free trip to Japan, we would go at minimal cost , ie., flight, hotel, maybe meals and some incidental minimum wage.

Edited October 23, 2007 by O.P.