susperc1 Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 I say go to ebay, get an older 60's/70's non kevlar 15" gut snare parade drum, put the heads on you've mentioned, tune accordingly, and voila!Real snare sound with real projection! "Real snare sound" is a preference of each player. "Real snare sound" has changed...The snare has changed. :ramd: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 It's true that the "fashionable" snare sound has changed, but snare drums really haven't except from a technology and design standpoint. I don't know of anyone in the outside musical world who'd think that the sound we get from snares now is musically complex or interesting when compared to the lower tech versions of 20 years ago. Seems we're training the players to be better musicians (speaking as a 70s/80s dinosaurs myself), but giving them less sensitive instruments to play in the snare line. To my ears, the sound of cranked Kevlar heads is not nearly as present in the stands as the less technological sound of high tension Mylar. It is, by contrast, rather thin, and all but disappears at volume levels of mezzo and below, showing up only at the ubiquitous syncopated rimshot cracks. When the heads are that tight and inflexible, the amount of air being disturbed inside the shell is necessarily restricted, and the snares won't make much of a sound at soft levels. Would be nice to see a line in a DCI corps try an all Mylar approach again, just for variety, if nothing else. I've seen a few lines who tried to approximate the sound with Kevlar, but it's hard to do through tuning alone. Then there's the issue of wear and tear on the lower arm by playing on too-hard surfaces, but that's topic for another day...;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheezMaster Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 What kind of heads did the Crusaders use over the past summer? They did not sound like kevlar or anything else that remo makes. i dont remember which skin company Boston marches for, but it sounded like they used mylar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susperc1 Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 It's true that the "fashionable" snare sound has changed, but snare drums really haven't except from a technology and design standpoint. I don't know of anyone in the outside musical world who'd think that the sound we get from snares now is musically complex or interesting when compared to the lower tech versions of 20 years ago. Seems we're training the players to be better musicians (speaking as a 70s/80s dinosaurs myself), but giving them less sensitive instruments to play in the snare line.To my ears, the sound of cranked Kevlar heads is not nearly as present in the stands as the less technological sound of high tension Mylar. It is, by contrast, rather thin, and all but disappears at volume levels of mezzo and below, showing up only at the ubiquitous syncopated rimshot cracks. When the heads are that tight and inflexible, the amount of air being disturbed inside the shell is necessarily restricted, and the snares won't make much of a sound at soft levels. Would be nice to see a line in a DCI corps try an all Mylar approach again, just for variety, if nothing else. I've seen a few lines who tried to approximate the sound with Kevlar, but it's hard to do through tuning alone. Then there's the issue of wear and tear on the lower arm by playing on too-hard surfaces, but that's topic for another day...;-) The Glassmen tried mylar last year and it worked... I don't think the sound dissapears below mezzo...if you tune a snare right it shouldn't...and if your players aren't feather tapping, and playing marcato at 4 inches it shouldn't either... My point being is that you don't have to crank the crap out of the tops to get a good snare sound... I also don't think that today's snares sound like "formica table tops"...I like the "cleaner" sound we have now...It may sound like they are non-snary to you from 5 feet away but stand 30 feet away and you'll get the snare sound...if the people tune right...that's just my preference though :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susperc1 Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 What kind of heads did the Crusaders use over the past summer? They did not sound like kevlar or anything else that remo makes. i dont remember which skin company Boston marches for, but it sounded like they used mylar. Boston is under Remo...I didn't see them in 02 so I don't know :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBrooks Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Yes, the Glassmen did try mylar heads last year, but not throughout the entire season. The heads were breaking WAY to often. I would suggest a white max head, with an evans or a falams bottom, and cranking is definatley not the way you want to go. Tune the drum just like you would a concert snare, only , obviously, it will require higher tension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insanity Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 More and more, corps are moving away from the "crank the #### out of the top head" mentality. Tune the top head so it feels good to play on--your bottom head has just as much influence on the pitch of the drum as the top head does. Overcranking the top head doesn't allow it to vibrate as much, so it moves less air inside the drum, so the snares don't respond well, so you get an extremely dry, staccato sound that doesn't carry across the field very well. When you are tuning the drum, remember that how it sounds near the drum is often completely different from how it sounds from a distance. Have someone stand at least 20 or 30 feet away when you're tuning the drum so you know how it will sound. Also, realize that if you get one drum sounding nice, a whole line of those drums may not sound quite so good. Tune individual snares slightly drier than you'd tune them for solo use and listen to how they blend as a line. I wouldn't really recommend the falam bottom head--it's a lot drier than a remo ambassador, for example, and while it will last longer, it won't give you as effective a snare response as an ambassador. My recommendation--a white or black max head on top--tuned to feel nice--tight but smooth, and a hazy ambassador on the bottom, tuned relatively high, but experiment with bottom head tuning, snare positioning, and individual gut tuning until you hit the sweet spot and find the sound you want. For once, someone who is close to knowing how to tune a snare drum. The only thing I would add is be sure to tune the drum to the desired pitch you want too. Good approach, thank you. Later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickCogley Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 I marched in the early 80s, so I am no kevlar expert (and I confess I don't like the dry sound either) but a couple of things should be considered in any situation. We (our instructors mostly) fiddled all the time with our Slingerlands and Premier drums - * write down what you do, have the discipline to check the sound on different days in different weather. * make sure the bearing edge of the drum is very smooth. I used to use ultra fine sandpaper on the bearing edge, and then a little wax as a finishing touch to make it smooth. * pay attention to how the drums sound in a line, from the "stands", not from mid-line. * pay attention to the difference in pitch between the top and bottom heads - is it a minor third, major third or whatever. * learn how to tune, i.e. how to go around the drum to make the head "sit" well, and get all the lugs to the same level of tension. * the guts don't have to be what the maker decided - try tennis racket string or cable etc for different sounds. * play with the gut tension, so that the guts are all the same in pitch (you can put a popsicle stick under each side and pluck them to hear it) or, so the outside ones are high going to lower pitch in the middle of the snare assembly. Hope to hear some unique snareline sounds this year, and not just cookie cutter kevlar dryness! Regards Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCIFanOfAllDivisions Posted May 20, 2003 Author Share Posted May 20, 2003 anyone else have any tricks.... lets hear how you tune your snares what sticks you use heads (top and bottom) etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigma Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 You could try adding an extra set of snares and putting them on the rim of the drum opposite to the snares on the bottom. IF you don't have any snares , try tennis string. That could help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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