ItsOnTheField Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I agree with the ArgonneRebel, I heard 11 in the hornline. And the source was not the forums. There have been many great corps with smaller numbers. I'm sure they will be great as usual! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phirefenix Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 There have been many great corps with smaller numbers. I'm sure they will be great as usual! Paging Mandarins 10 member winning hornline to this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSmashBrothers Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 But were the Mandarins really competing against nearly 150 member corps like Jersey Surf and Teal Sound? They competed in Div I Quarters, yes, but Southwind at that time, I am 99% sure, was not up to quality for its time period compared to what Surf or Teal may be this coming season. This may be just speculation as to what quality programs these two corps will put out but I am sure they will be better than 23rd Place at World Class Quarters. Also, you cannot argue that Mandarins came in 19th place or whatever at Quarters and argue against this post because those 5 corps below them were pretty much all the Div II and III corps that received the opportunity to compete that day. It could happen again though I suppose, right? I just have a very HONEST gut feeling that it will not against the larger corps in the Open Class division this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noneofyourbusiness Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 ....This may be just speculation as to what quality programs these two corps will put out but I am sure they will be better than 23rd Place at World Class Quarters....... I would hope they are better than 23rd place at quarters....considering there are only 20 World Class corps this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldingna Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 But were the Mandarins really competing against nearly 150 member corps like Jersey Surf and Teal Sound? They competed in Div I Quarters, yes, but Southwind at that time, I am 99% sure, was not up to quality for its time period compared to what Surf or Teal may be this coming season. This may be just speculation as to what quality programs these two corps will put out but I am sure they will be better than 23rd Place at World Class Quarters. Also, you cannot argue that Mandarins came in 19th place or whatever at Quarters and argue against this post because those 5 corps below them were pretty much all the Div II and III corps that received the opportunity to compete that day.It could happen again though I suppose, right? I just have a very HONEST gut feeling that it will not against the larger corps in the Open Class division this year. Actually, I can argue against that. What you don't realize is that Division II/III had alot more depth back then. Teal and Surf are great, but if you listen to last year's recordings, they still sounded very much like Division II corps. Even if they are a little better than last year, they still probably won't be as strong as the 1997 Spartans, ECJ, and Tarheel Sun, all of which are Division II/III groups that the Mandarins beat that year. What made that Mandarins corps great was how tight they were from an ensemble standpoint. Surf was pretty okay with that last year, and Teal had some noticeable ensemble issues. That's not to say that they won't be big and loud, nor is it to say that they won't be in the top two, because I believe they will be. What I am intending to say is that the 1997 Mandarins corps would still be capable of beating the lower tier of World Class today, and certainly would have placed 2nd or 3rd last year in Division II/III. As for the Spartans this year, I don't see them placing very well. I think they can make finals, but their situation is very different from the 1997 Mandarins. The Mandarins were always small, but very stable. The Spartans are small this year because of instability. I've had a great deal of respect for them since competing and spending the 4th of July with them in 1997 and 1998, but I really think this is going to be a rebuilding year for them. That said, I don't understand what the panic is all about. This kind of stuff happens. Fortunately for them, the foundation is solid. Give them a couple of years, they'll be back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSmashBrothers Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Actually, I can argue against that. What you don't realize is that Division II/III had alot more depth back then. Teal and Surf are great, but if you listen to last year's recordings, they still sounded very much like Division II corps. Even if they are a little better than last year, they still probably won't be as strong as the 1997 Spartans, ECJ, and Tarheel Sun, all of which are Division II/III groups that the Mandarins beat that year. What made that Mandarins corps great was how tight they were from an ensemble standpoint. Surf was pretty okay with that last year, and Teal had some noticeable ensemble issues. That's not to say that they won't be big and loud, nor is it to say that they won't be in the top two, because I believe they will be. What I am intending to say is that the 1997 Mandarins corps would still be capable of beating the lower tier of World Class today, and certainly would have placed 2nd or 3rd last year in Division II/III. I am aware of the quality that ECJ, Tarheel Sun, and Spartans put out that season. Just for the record I was actually referring to 1996 in my post but that doesn't matter much. I will still defend my statements. There were some incredible moments in some of those shows but also at the same time moments that were dirty as all hell. Are there both kinds of moments like that now-a-days in corps programs? Yes. More depth back then than now? I do not think so. I don't think "Spartans 1997 Presents: Park and Bark: The Music of Standing Still when Music is in High Demand and Covering Ground Later" has much more depth than anything today. If anyone finds that rude then some people also find the statement, "a lot more depth back then" rude also, have a moderate sense of humor please. What I am saying is that IF the top 3 corps in Open Class are to put out World Class (not bottom of the barrel WC) quality programs in the "lesser" competitive setting of OpC, a 10 man hornline even of Mandarins 97 level probably wont win any time soon. The activity is evolving. There is no denying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldingna Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 What I am saying is that IF the top 3 corps in Open Class are to put out World Class (not bottom of the barrel WC) quality programs in the "lesser" competitive setting of OpC, a 10 man hornline even of Mandarins 97 level probably wont win any time soon. The activity is evolving. There is no denying that. I can't disagree with that, but the reality is that these corps aren't putting out World Class programs, nor should they. World Class programs are meant for for World Class corps. The weight of Open Class is not placed on innovation, but rather on cleanliness and sound fundamentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARI 2783 Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Some of their old staff is teaching in other places. That in itself ought to be interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSmashBrothers Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I can't disagree with that, but the reality is that these corps aren't putting out World Class programs, nor should they. World Class programs are meant for for World Class corps. The weight of Open Class is not placed on innovation, but rather on cleanliness and sound fundamentals. Well said. However... Is Pioneer, Black Gold, or Kiwanis Kavaliers really that much more innovative than say, Teal Sound or even SCVC for that matter? Maybe those 3 corps never should have belonged in Division I? It is a matter of opinion but to ever say Pioneer should not be World Class would be harsh to say even on these boards. I think it is fair to say that there are crossovers when you look at bottom World Class and top Open Class. I could say Magic of Orlando was much more innovative than dozens of corps in 2002 according to their Div I finals placement. They remained officially in Division II, but I won't put an emphasis on this one because that was a "flaw" in the system in some minds. Yes, judging sheets are different in both classes and have different requirements to be successful but Open Class corps can still be more innovative than some World Class corps and remain clean, meeting standards on their own sheets. That is having a World Class program (show). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikedrumcorps Posted March 20, 2008 Author Share Posted March 20, 2008 Does anyone know why all the staff left? I've been away form drum corps for a while and I guess I missed A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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