SuperSmashBrothers

Y'know, that would be the logical answer. Something tells me though that in the Deep South the right answer isn't always the one the general population likes to choose... For example: Slavery is good. --> We all know that wasn't worth fighting for. Or: NASCAR is a dang-good sport. --> No Comment. How about: Marrying your sister is okay. --> Maybe it is if shes drop-dead-sexy and it will actually benefit the gene-pool in the neighborhood... chances are, it may. Paula Deen says, "Go with the Teal color... Cream is better with bacon and mayonnaise, not your pants."

http://www.tealsound.org/support/uniform.html uh...

A little unrelated but I think Raiders have Gino as a Consultant for the winter is equal in size to Spartans getting Aungst to write their book and be a head program designer.... The East has had a lot of news lately.

It will take a lot more than that to clean those 140 feet... May I suggest black pants? Oh wait...

Were you also inducted into the Grammar Hall of Fame? Maybe you have a few National Spelling Bee Champion Trophies? Mensa Member Jacket? Please, please, keep going!

never had a drink of booze my entire life. i also dont really believe in cars either. are those people who live in countries where drunk driving is not a crime against drunk driving laws too? not necessarily. it is a fact though that this law was an adaptation for one reason or another. riots are good. then a lot of people learn the hard way. riots need to happen more often so people get sense knocked into them. that is almost one step in the right direction. it is only worth it as long as people dont press charges afterwards. downside though is sometimes sense can get knocked out of them. youre a good man, jwier.

therefore, your argument is poor. american values do not represent the world. my values or opinions do not represent all values or opinions either. people need to keep their ears and eyes open to the world around them. a kid could also get heat stroke and potentially get incredibly sick within a drum corps no matter how responsible a corps is about water breaks. the kid's body just probably wasnt built for drum corps. if the child cracked his head on the pavement and died, well, his skull just wasnt built for a little 2 foot drop like that and he shouldnt have been running around like an idiot. the skull is biologically designed as a helmet in the first place. who's fault is it? it is essentially the person's own fault or the parents' fault if an 8 year old cannot be responsible for his or her own actions. survival of the fittest. the most natural of all laws. by the way this argument may be looking like it is getting ridiculous but an argument about the morality of a child getting tripped for misbehaving and all of the peoples' horrible reactions i have cited are actually more ridiculous because of how narrow minded they are. so that people don't miss the point, my argument ends here. unless of course people continue to challenge it then it may all just spiral outwards so first time readers dont get the whole jist

back in the day it wasnt a crime, in many nations it still isnt a crime. this was an adaptation to our american values. we all needed to make sure our 2.3 children survived when they were out driving their Volvos and BMWs around 2 in the morning, or our dog and cat didnt get run over because they ran outside to take a tinkle, or our white picket fence didnt get driven into.

and there shouldnt be a law for Breaking and Entering on private property either! The whole human race should run free! Do whatever the #### you want guys because we dont respect boundaries anymore! so youre telling me that if some random kid decided to run into your house and just do that... run around your house... you wouldnt grab him by the arm and throw him out? you would be nice about it right? "oh, please child, please leave. i do not know what you are doing in here but you should be respectful of my personal space." even if you yelled at the kid, words can be just as painful as a boot in the a-- out the door ESPECIALLY in this day and age. great plan. lets all be polite for now on.

another example that proves my last post. i hope your kids are smart enough to teach themselves lessons and teach themselves that there are worst things in this world than getting tripped on a nice day when he has been graced with a bands musical performance. the kid probably wont even remember the incident when hes playing nintendo the next day home "sick" from school. i am so glad you would try to drive a low budget organization into the ground over a scraped knee. you are a true american.

dbc03 's views on this subject are the reasons america is what it is today: an over-reactive, "bring to court" loving, wasteful, softy soft middle class parenting, 7 year olds carrying cell phones, text messaging, whiny bull-shet society. I wish children still got beat in school by the nuns like they always did even though i dont believe in organized religion. those nuns got one thing right in all of their lesson plans. oh and dont complain about the high rates of child abuse today because of crap like that, good for it, thats why we have stuff like the Department of Social Services when kids are beat just a little too hard. there needs to be more hardship in this country. we got it too easy. if seeing a kid get tripped for being a moron makes someone cry, that someone should move out of this country and go somewhere where children are still enslaved. I'm not saying slavery is cool, but come on, there are better things to whine about. the human race will have killed itself off in the next 1000 years anyway. chill. i like corps and bands that have a sense of respect for their organization.<-- that is my attempt to keep this semi-political and incredibly "heartless" post from being deleted on a marching activities forum.

Sounds to me like a lot of you are over reacting. Yeah, big bottom sound, there is nothing wrong with that but please, oh please, little skinny trumpet players, can you blend to what the low brass is giving you instead of stagger breathing rather terribly here and there and everywhere? It sounds like there are only 6 of you. Six very little trumpet players. Half Teasing Half Teasing. When people listen to this they hear a lot of Tubas and they shut their ears off to everything else. Inexperienced ears. No doubt though that they will be a great brass line this summer, as they always are. I think they may almost be pushing the bottom end too much. Fans just need to relax a bit.

-All out predictions that will probably not even be close to accurate but will surely stimulate your interest... I will not provide any reasoning. It should be self explanatory. -I am including the Targets because their own schedule says they will be attending. They also have a show in Dayton on the 3rd so why wouldn't they take part in finals if its two days later? -I am excluding Beatrix and Stragnas just because only the Lord knows if they will be in Open Class or International Class. If Beatrix were to compete in Open then they would place between 13-11. Stragnas would be in the bottom 25-19. -The only other DCI recognized Open Class corps not attending championships are Gold, Mystikal, and Blue Devils C who will all be having a shortened tour. 1.Jersey Surf 2.Teal Sound 3.Blue Devils B 4.Vanguard Cadets 5.Fever 6.Citations 7.Oregon Crusaders 8.Dutch Boy 9.Revolution 10.Memphis Sound 11.Impulse 12.Raiders 13.Capital Sound 14.Spartans 15.Velvet Knights 16.Spokane Thunder 17.7th Regiment 18.Colt Cadets 19.Legends 20.H.Y.P.E. 21.Racine Scouts 22.Targets 23.Spirit of Newark 24.Les Stentors

I can't call that a method of madness at all... my nephews and nieces do "suicides" (as the running you are referring to is called) in their pee-wee soccer practices all the time. If a drum corps made of men and women can't handle SUICIDES a COUPLE of TIMES... what is this activity coming to? [This question is not meant to be debated. It is merely for effect] I know Drum Corps now-a-days is tougher than THAT.

Well said. However... Is Pioneer, Black Gold, or Kiwanis Kavaliers really that much more innovative than say, Teal Sound or even SCVC for that matter? Maybe those 3 corps never should have belonged in Division I? It is a matter of opinion but to ever say Pioneer should not be World Class would be harsh to say even on these boards. I think it is fair to say that there are crossovers when you look at bottom World Class and top Open Class. I could say Magic of Orlando was much more innovative than dozens of corps in 2002 according to their Div I finals placement. They remained officially in Division II, but I won't put an emphasis on this one because that was a "flaw" in the system in some minds. Yes, judging sheets are different in both classes and have different requirements to be successful but Open Class corps can still be more innovative than some World Class corps and remain clean, meeting standards on their own sheets. That is having a World Class program (show).

I am aware of the quality that ECJ, Tarheel Sun, and Spartans put out that season. Just for the record I was actually referring to 1996 in my post but that doesn't matter much. I will still defend my statements. There were some incredible moments in some of those shows but also at the same time moments that were dirty as all hell. Are there both kinds of moments like that now-a-days in corps programs? Yes. More depth back then than now? I do not think so. I don't think "Spartans 1997 Presents: Park and Bark: The Music of Standing Still when Music is in High Demand and Covering Ground Later" has much more depth than anything today. If anyone finds that rude then some people also find the statement, "a lot more depth back then" rude also, have a moderate sense of humor please. What I am saying is that IF the top 3 corps in Open Class are to put out World Class (not bottom of the barrel WC) quality programs in the "lesser" competitive setting of OpC, a 10 man hornline even of Mandarins 97 level probably wont win any time soon. The activity is evolving. There is no denying that.

But were the Mandarins really competing against nearly 150 member corps like Jersey Surf and Teal Sound? They competed in Div I Quarters, yes, but Southwind at that time, I am 99% sure, was not up to quality for its time period compared to what Surf or Teal may be this coming season. This may be just speculation as to what quality programs these two corps will put out but I am sure they will be better than 23rd Place at World Class Quarters. Also, you cannot argue that Mandarins came in 19th place or whatever at Quarters and argue against this post because those 5 corps below them were pretty much all the Div II and III corps that received the opportunity to compete that day. It could happen again though I suppose, right? I just have a very HONEST gut feeling that it will not against the larger corps in the Open Class division this year.

A few things to say about this show: That closer is one Incredible performance. Great brass line, who lead it there that year? I only wish 1985 had drill execution and writing at a minimum of at least 10 years ahead of its time. Wishful thinking... All original music that year? I'm not making that up am I? AWESOME program to listen to.

Extremely Interesting... This point would be very difficult to effectively argue as a path for the future. I do not believe it is my place to even attempt that promotion but I would like to see someone argue that it could work. There USED to be other circuits and they are long gone probably for good reason but could these circuits have just been tweaked at all to make it all work? I don't even know if corps directors looked at it like you have just mentioned. I know that I haven't. Perhaps more programs could exist both financially and as a competitive entity if DCI had some sort of regional circuits in place. The North East (New England/NY, NJ/Ontario+Quebec) would alone have a big handful of Open Class Corps. I am sure if it was put in place a few more programs would over the years possibly be able to put together a very localized and community based corps. Over the years they could even gain enough steam to be able to do the National Tour. A big question is... interest among potential members and fan base. How would you market this type of local circuit? I won't get into it. It could work or it could not work. I want to see someone argue that it could work. I am indifferent. But.. Very Interesting.

Sorry, I just posted but I also just read this. Maybe the OP meant an All-Star Management Advisory Team but there are other ways too look at it. Look at my last post. Advisory/Evaluation teams already exist in DCI. They just need to be built upon little by little every year. That little extra bit of money put into them every year, to become a more active and useful team, could eventually add up to a lot of success for the activity. Also, a corps like the Braintree Braves can very well be a beneficiary for the activity. A corps like that was meant for a different level commitment/ different age group. Drum corps will always be drum corps no matter what age group or commitment level it is targeted for. For some people that was the only drum corps experience they ever could get. If a corps like that still existed and provided an excellent environment for students and had the kind of foundation the big corps now-a-days have then, that corps is just as important to the activity as the Cadets are. (silly sounding heh but it targets a certain part of the population and offers exposure to them) Personally though, I do not think that a corps like that could exist now because membership and interest would be very low. That is besides the point.

I find this topic very interesting... Anyone who ever starts a corps should definitely try to speak with as many experienced individuals as possible and probably get one of these individuals in on the project as a voice of reason and knowledge. Someone claimed that "trial and error" is a good way to learn things. I do not think there is any room for error now-a-days; budgets are tight. You should either do it right or not do it at all. A Drum corps should not last only 5 years because the trial and error went horribly wrong. How does that benefit the activity? It doesn't. The types of corps that benefit the activity are those that have been long established OR are on the right path to being a long lasting organization. Whether it is Blue Devils, The Academy, Jersey Surf, or Pioneer, these organizations are the ones that benefit the activity from day to day to day and keep the train on the right track. Let's think for a minute... Say I marched Cadets for 3 seasons, taught at BAC as a visual tech for 2 seasons, became the Assistant Tour Director at Glassmen for 2 seasons, and then became the Assistant Director for that corps for 3 more seasons (completely fictional by the way)... I bet this is the type of person who could start a drum corps of their own that could possibly benefit the activity in the long term. That is a great amount of experience that is pretty wide spread. The only thing is, this person would probably still need people to consult with. This person probably wouldn't know a lot about HOW to finance a corps properly and therefore would need someone else with experience. It is quite obvious that an incredible amount of experience and knowledge is required to bring a new corps to a solid foundation. (It doesn't even have to be a brand new corps. It could be some already 10 year existing Open Class corps that needs a big make-over to run efficiently.) On that note about making ANY corps, new or old, a long lasting beneficiary of the activity, an organization like DCI or... something else should probably assemble some sort of task force to ensure the growth of the activity. Yeah... that does sort of sound far-fetched but listen to what we already have... A lot of corps are already "evaluated" once a year by DCI or the very least every few years to make sure the corps financial situations and other variables are running smoothly. When a new corps wants to apply for membership as Open Class or World Class, they must be evaluated by a team from DCI. For a group trying to gain membership into Open Class this evaluation does not happen until May of the season they plan on debuting ( a bit late to help guide a corps in the right direction if you ask me). Over the next few years (it would probably take time) DCI should expand on this idea and offer/require more evaluations, advice, and experience any time of the year. It is already done to a certain extent... if a bit more money is spent on it over time, it could benefit the activity enormous amounts over the long haul. Clearly I have not solved this friendly argument but I suppose that this is some moderately intelligent babbling for the masses to read.

Here's the scoop... Judges do, in fact, know how to score. They already do score based on difficulty and achievement. Anything is achievable in time, but the season only lasts so long. That means that a corps should shoot for something that IS achievable, which you argue is the wrong thing to do. If if corps A has a show that is difficult and dirty and another corps B has a program that is above average and clean, corps A should not win. If both programs however are on the same level of cleanliness or rather, achievement, then clearly the more difficult show should be the winner. Judges do understand this balance. Your definition of achievement is skewed. I see that a few people on here are hacking at Mempho. Fine sirs, that is probably one of the best shows from the Div II/III 2007 season. That brass line was excellent for their size of 29. They were very well balanced and musical. Their drumline also proved to be very solid. Their visual team did an excellent job with those kids. They marched like pros. If any of you are trying to say that an out of blend brass line, dirty drumline, or messy visual program should have beaten them JUST because it was on a higher difficulty level, you are sadly mistaken. Where is the achievement in that? I know this is World Class but... Scouts 06-Primal Forces, extremely difficult program... should they have been placed higher? Probably not because the corps above them achieved more. They're show was still great though.

I like the idea of posters, but full sized posters for every corps. Maybe even posters of the particular year's concept. I don't know how much they cost to print but, i would definitely purchase those no matter what the cost. They would be sold just as fast as t-shirts in my opinion. Even though I'm and old guy I would have no problem with putting something like that on the wall right over my bed without the wifey's approval.

It seems to me all of this arguing and bickering has gotten a bit off track. Whether or not we take the words of NoDuttingOutLoud or the responses of others as true, we need to re-focus and gather what we can. There is no doubt that there is still a serious problem here. As earlier mentioned in this thread, the Spartans was a very classy organization all around. Never once have i seen an announced member of the Spartan organization speak about the corps or about any other corps in a good or bad manner, except for our fellow Beastie Boy up there, before the past several weeks. (As we can all see, even a positive post can turn to bad on here) From my observations, some of the people on both sides of the argument are in fact Spartans alum. To lose all of that class and for all of this chaos to break loose, something VERY serious must have gone on between affiliates of the organization in recent weeks/months what have you. That is a FACT. If we take what NoDuttingOutLoud is saying as truth, we have a very plausible explanation for all of this, that matches the current level of hysteria. After observing this thread since its existence and other previous threads, I can tell this corps has been in the danger zone for a few weeks now. If you guys want to argue at least start on some solid footing which I have just provided. Learn how to read between the lines. Re-focus. Logic is key. Go from there. Find truth for yourself. Or for safety's sake, just don't argue at all.

It sounds like good steps are being taken. I hope that everything works out and we see a corps in exhibition in a year or two! Good Luck!