Does anyone really care about Open Class?

[Liam]

So then let the top 5 open class compete in quarters just like they did in the old days. A corps should not have to take on the added financial implications just so DCI can justify having quarterfinals.

I agree -- don't know for sure why they changed that -- the cynical side of me thinks it might be because Div2s were beating Div1s and this was deemed to be embarrasing or something. My plan addresses this by just letting every corps choose the tour they are comfortable with, based on budget contraints, member constraints, whatever, but otherwise operating under the same rules on-field and off. So Phantom (for example) chooses to do a Regional tour one year for whatever reason (Europe trip, other events, budget-rebuilding year, whatever) -- they're still Phantom and will still finish strong at Regionals and Nationals -- no stigma attached to any of the National corps that year that lose to them.

[Tom Brace]

the problem is....these days there is a lot of pressure for the successful what we now call Open Class corps to "move up" to world class status. Pioneer, Southwind, Esperanza, Magic, Tarheel, Mandarins, Capital Regiment, Cascades, Pacific Crest, Kiwanis Kavaliers, Blue Stars, Academy were all at one time succesful Open Class corps that moved up. A lot of this movement happened after the rule was passed that if you wanted to perform in quarterfinals, you needed to declare yourself World Class. Several of these groups had been successful in Quarters, so the move made sense, but the financial impact was too much. Look at how many of those corps are no longer in existance after only a few short years in Div I.

I really think that if Open Class is to survive and thrive, DCI needs to use the classification similar to what WGI does and classify based on skill set. I think we can all agree that there are several groups that are "world class" when they truly aren't a world class skill set. Tour schedules and size should bear no weight on classification. Only then do i think there will be growth in Open Class. Groups can be reviewed throughout the season and "bumped" to world if they meet the requirements for the next level.

Just look at how many new independent groups keep popping up on the WGI Percussion side of things. Every year there are several new groups at championships!

Put open class finals in the big stadium the night before quarters and they might have a hit!

There are financial incentives to move up. Typically more shows and more revenue. Has II/III corps been paid lately for their performances? The move to Open Class is supposed to get to a point where they could potentially share some of the revenue from their shows, but they are a long way from that. The quick fix...go World Class. Then there's a paycheck at the end of the show.

Open Class should and most likely will, establish an identity separate from World Class. Think DCI and DCA. They have distinctly different identities to drum corps fans.

Open Class needs a strong identity other than "the little corps" or the corps working toward moving up. I think Open Class is an ideal place for some corps to continue. We just need to get to a point where corps are rewarded for making this decision.

[jonz311]

There are financial incentives to move up. Typically more shows and more revenue. Has II/III corps been paid lately for their performances? The move to Open Class is supposed to get to a point where they could potentially share some of the revenue from their shows, but they are a long way from that. The quick fix...go World Class. Then there's a paycheck at the end of the show.

Open Class should and most likely will, establish an identity separate from World Class. Think DCI and DCA. They have distinctly different identities to drum corps fans.

Open Class needs a strong identity other than "the little corps" or the corps working toward moving up. I think Open Class is an ideal place for some corps to continue. We just need to get to a point where corps are rewarded for making this decision.

Open class corps aren't required to attend Open Class only shows...in fact most of the open class corps perform at more World shows in a season than they do open shows. Several years ago this was not the case as there were several large Div II regionals that were usually fairly well attended.

i agree that the open class should have its own identity, but what is that identity? It shouldn't be that they are smaller corps, because there are a few large corps that also compete in open class. they shouldn't be based on tour schedules because there are several corps that could easily go toe to toe with most of the 12-21 place world class corps. So how do you differentiate between the 2?

Skill sets.

The sheets need to be changed to reflect that open class is and INTERMEDIATE level while World is ADVANCED. This will allow greater parity and also allow a corps that may have started as open class to be "bumped" to world class during the course of the season. The reverse could also happen, though it would be less likely. Many of the current world class corps may need to drop down to open because of the competetive standards of the class. This would also add much more parity and competetion at both levels.

Show format should remain similar to what goes on now, except there should be no Open class only shows. The show should start with Open Class performing first and World Class later. They should both be judged on seperate sheets like they are now.

I know nothing about how the corps are paid, but this is how i'd do it.

The only thing that would really need to change is the way DCI compensates the corps. Pay scale should be based on what it would take to keep the corps operating at a zero or minimal loss. No corps should be paid more than what would give them to break even. That may meean that DCI needs to monitor all expenses that a particular corps has to incur. A corps of 150 members that has a deal that gives them free horns, drums, and uniforms should not be paid more than a corps that has 150 members that has to buy all of that stuff. The amount of time spent on the road should also reflect a difference in the pay. Member dues, staff payment, food expense, and other variables must come into play as well. Every corps is a non-profit organization, aren't they? No one should come out of the end of the season with more money than they started.

[Richard]

Open class corps aren't required to attend Open Class only shows...in fact most of the open class corps perform at more World shows in a season than they do open shows. Several years ago this was not the case as there were several large Div II regionals that were usually fairly well attended.

There's a lot of good ideas in this post but most of them only work in theory.

Many of the current world class corps may need to drop down to open because of the competetive standards of the class. This would also add much more parity and competetion at both levels.

This will never happen because of the payout structure in the two divisions. I do recognize that you admit you know nothing of how corps get paid (not that I know that much about it either), but money and status are two gigantic reasons that corps will never "move down".

The only thing that would really need to change is the way DCI compensates the corps. Pay scale should be based on what it would take to keep the corps operating at a zero or minimal loss. No corps should be paid more than what would give them to break even. That may meean that DCI needs to monitor all expenses that a particular corps has to incur. A corps of 150 members that has a deal that gives them free horns, drums, and uniforms should not be paid more than a corps that has 150 members that has to buy all of that stuff. The amount of time spent on the road should also reflect a difference in the pay. Member dues, staff payment, food expense, and other variables must come into play as well. Every corps is a non-profit organization, aren't they? No one should come out of the end of the season with more money than they started.

Again, fantastic idea in principle, but in my eyes there are a few flaws. First of all, DCI does not have the resources to monitor and manage the finances of all the junior corps under it's umbrella. Second, expenses for corps will vary based on tour structure, type of equipment and show design decisions among other things. There are infinitely more expenses than simply horns, drums and uniforms, and infinitely more variables than the amount of marching members. Last, this system would reward the corps that are financially irresponsible and punish those that have worked hard to build a strong organization. Groups like YEA and BD have most certainly worked hard to be in the situations they are in today, why punish them for it by cutting their show revenues?

My two cents.

[jonz311]

There's a lot of good ideas in this post but most of them only work in theory.

This will never happen because of the payout structure in the two divisions. I do recognize that you admit you know nothing of how corps get paid (not that I know that much about it either), but money and status are two gigantic reasons that corps will never "move down".

I guess that all depends on the philosophy of the corps. Would you rather be a 20th place World class corps or a top 5 Open class? do those bottom World corps really draw more members than the top open corps? what is the benefit of being world class then?

Sure there would be many things that would have to weigh in on how a corps got paid, but that may be up to DCI to do yearly audits of the corps. How is show payment determined? is there a set dollar amount paid to each corps at each show? is payment based on ticket sales for that particular show? how do these corps plan for an undetermined amount of income from doing a particular show? i'm sure the world corps get paid more for the shows they do, but in reality, how much more?

[EndzoneEric]

The sheets need to be changed to reflect that open class is and INTERMEDIATE level while World is ADVANCED. T

This would require DCI's judging to maintain separate criteria for these different sub-classes, which would require additional training... which would require additional dollars.

Did you ever notice the scoring fluctuations when you have one corps like Revolution in a show with all World Class (formerly Div. 1) corps?

A multi-layered judging system could help cultivate growth... but it would require more resources IMHO.

[jonz311]

This would require DCI's judging to maintain separate criteria for these different sub-classes, which would require additional training... which would require additional dollars.

Did you ever notice the scoring fluctuations when you have one corps like Revolution in a show with all World Class (formerly Div. 1) corps?

A multi-layered judging system could help cultivate growth... but it would require more resources IMHO.

open class already has it's own sheets and they are judged on those sheets even when they are at world class shows. again, several years ago, that was not the case...if a II/III corps was at a I show, they were judged on the I sheets. This is no longer the case.

[Liam]

Every corps is a non-profit organization, aren't they? No one should come out of the end of the season with more money than they started.

Always have to respond to this kind of comment when it comes up. This is a common mis-conception. Non-profit (technical term is actually "Not-for-profit") doesn't mean that an organization can't, or even shouldn't, make a profit. The distinction is that, different from a "For-profit" org whose primary purpose is to make money, the primary purpose for a N-F-P is something else (charitable, educational, religious, etc). They can make as much profit as they want as long as that profit is used to further whatever is in their mission statement -- as opposed to paid to owners or stockholders in a F-P environment.

Another issue with your idea is that not all of these organizations are stand-alone drum corps. Some have multiple corps, some have other activities as well (WGI, drum-lines-for-hire, completely other non-drum corps specific activities, etc). Some may use money earned in DCI to fund other activities to further their mission statement. Some may use revenue from other activities to fund drum corps. So it would be impossible to develop some standard of budget or spending that would apply across the board to all competing corps because their individual mission statements and infrastructure are as unrelated as they can be.

[EndzoneEric]

Non-profit (technical term is actually "Not-for-profit") doesn't mean that an organization can't, or even shouldn't, make a profit. T

Liam: thanks for bringing this up. I think many people assume that "non profit" status gives organizations an excuse for being "woe is me."

[kansasDC]

Honestly, this isn't that different from how BOA operates. Local shows with the local high schools and maybe one or two "travelling" schools. Regionals that attract many local and national schools -- with Prelims in random order, I might add. And Nationals with fewer smaller/local schools and a lot of big boys from around the country (again, random prelim order -- I think now even random finals order, but prelim order has always been random even before that change). The Regionals and Nationals recognize a Grand Champion, but also a Class A and AA (or whatever they're called now -- I'm not really current on what's happening over there!). If DCI wants to attract the high school band members/fans for future growth, I suggest they look more at the structure side of things and less at the on-field side of things. The latter means nothing without the former, imo, and I think the latter would also seem not so "necessary" if the former were implemented.

This is where you hit the nail on the head. DCI no longer needs the Open Class corps, or Garden State Circuit, Eastern Mass, GLDCA, etc. due to the huge increase in competitive bands. Based on their own statistics, the large majority of rookies in DCI World Class corps never marched in Open Class or DCA. They come straight from the BOA band programs to the top 12-14 corps in World Class. So, why should DCI continue to expend energy and money on the Open Class system if they no longer need it for members? Back when I marched, few members came from bands due the difference in instrumentation plus the "them vs us" attitudes between corps and bands. Now, we're all one big, happy family, so BOA and DCI continue to feed each other.

Unfortunately, I see that the only future for the Open Class corps that want to continue to be non-World Class is DCA, just like St. Johns is doing. Not that that is a bad thing (I kind of prefer it right now), it's just that I'll miss the Garden State and Eastern Mass style circuits, where kids with little or no experience can actually be educated in marching and music.