Lip Problems

[BeachDrums]

Greetings,

I am having trouble with playing after even just 20 minutes. After this time, I have trouble playing just about any note without having to force a lot of air. After 20 minutes or so of practicing, my tone is rather soft, impotent, and again, I have to force a lot of air to get any real volume. No, my lips don't hurt and yes, I believe I warm up long enough . . . maybe too much, I don't know.

Warm-up consists of:

2 minutes of mouthpiece (nothing high or low)

2 minutes of scales from C, just below staff to G, second line (on trumpet)

5 minutes of scales from C just below staff to low pedal C

2 minutes of chromatic scales from C just below staff to C, 3rd space

5 minutes of long tones using second line G

I then practice exercises from book for about 20 minutes

Then, maybe 5 minutes of double tongue practice.

I don't know if this may be contributing to my problem, but I don't really keep my corners firm/tight while playing except when needed with higher notes. Have you ever had a time when you, after even a short time of practicing, have had to force a lot of air to get ample sound, even in the middle range and even then, the sound is not clean or fat, but rather soft , without real clarity? If so, I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Thank you

[Drew Wilkie]

It sounds like the CENTER of your lips are much too tight. You may be rolling in or clamping with the middle of your embouchure. Instead, keep the center TOTALLY relaxed. Everything inside the mouthpiece should be mush. We lose projection and volume when the buzzpoint can't vibrate freely...it becomes constricted via tension and mouthpiece pressure. The corners of your mouthpiece should flex forward and toward the mouthpiece rim, but the CENTER remains mushy, especially in the upper register. A good gauge of your level of relaxation is breath attacks: try setting the mouthpiece and horn on your face, and blow very very quiet notes, WITHOUT using the tongue to start them...think "whooo". The idea is to get the note started using the tiniest amount of air possible. This will force you to relax the center of your embouchure to the appropriate and most efficient level.

Less tension = more vibration = bigger sound!

What mouthpiece and horn are you using? How long have you been playing?

[bill]

Greetings,

I am having trouble with playing after even just 20 minutes. After this time, I have trouble playing just about any note without having to force a lot of air. After 20 minutes or so of practicing, my tone is rather soft, impotent, and again, I have to force a lot of air to get any real volume. No, my lips don't hurt and yes, I believe I warm up long enough . . . maybe too much, I don't know.

Warm-up consists of:

2 minutes of mouthpiece (nothing high or low)

2 minutes of scales from C, just below staff to G, second line (on trumpet)

5 minutes of scales from C just below staff to low pedal C

2 minutes of chromatic scales from C just below staff to C, 3rd space

5 minutes of long tones using second line G

I then practice exercises from book for about 20 minutes

Then, maybe 5 minutes of double tongue practice.

I don't know if this may be contributing to my problem, but I don't really keep my corners firm/tight while playing except when needed with higher notes. Have you ever had a time when you, after even a short time of practicing, have had to force a lot of air to get ample sound, even in the middle range and even then, the sound is not clean or fat, but rather soft , without real clarity? If so, I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Thank you

Rest the same amount of time you play after each segment; i.e., play 2 minutes, rest two minutes, etc. etc., then you should be warmed up and ready to go.

[CookieMonster]

After this, do you have a ring on your lips from the mouthpiece? It sounds like you could be pressing too hard on your top lip.

[BMBob]

It sounds like the CENTER of your lips are much too tight. You may be rolling in or clamping with the middle of your embouchure. Instead, keep the center TOTALLY relaxed. Everything inside the mouthpiece should be mush. We lose projection and volume when the buzzpoint can't vibrate freely...it becomes constricted via tension and mouthpiece pressure. The corners of your mouthpiece should flex forward and toward the mouthpiece rim, but the CENTER remains mushy

This is exactly right! Outside the mouthpiece should be tight. Inside should be loose. Think of your embouchure as mirroring the way your mouth looks when you eat something really sour...or imagine that your lips are the edges of one of those drawstring bags, so that as you tighten it, everything draws inward, rather than creating a smile or frown. Either way, just keep the inside of the embouchure separate and loose. If there's nothing that can buzz (read: vibrate) then you can't make any sound.

[Martybucs]

Is this a recent problem? Has this playing condition always been present or is this something that just sort of happened recently?

If so, you may have an injury. It could be severe.

If there is no pain, just fatigue, you could always try all the suggestions here and see if they help.

However, if the problem suddenly arose and doesn't get better or gets worse, it may be an indication that you may have injured either the muscle or tissues of your embouchure.

I think many of us that have been playing a long time have seen this before in a few players and unfortunately some never recover from the injury.

Not trying to be an alarmist and I sincerely hope the suggestions put forth here remedy the problems you are having. I would say you're warm up seems a bit tiring if you don't rest after it. (However, I'm not a warm up kind of player, never have been).

Either way, best of luck to you.

Greetings,

I am having trouble with playing after even just 20 minutes. After this time, I have trouble playing just about any note without having to force a lot of air. After 20 minutes or so of practicing, my tone is rather soft, impotent, and again, I have to force a lot of air to get any real volume. No, my lips don't hurt and yes, I believe I warm up long enough . . . maybe too much, I don't know.

Warm-up consists of:

2 minutes of mouthpiece (nothing high or low)

2 minutes of scales from C, just below staff to G, second line (on trumpet)

5 minutes of scales from C just below staff to low pedal C

2 minutes of chromatic scales from C just below staff to C, 3rd space

5 minutes of long tones using second line G

I then practice exercises from book for about 20 minutes

Then, maybe 5 minutes of double tongue practice.

I don't know if this may be contributing to my problem, but I don't really keep my corners firm/tight while playing except when needed with higher notes. Have you ever had a time when you, after even a short time of practicing, have had to force a lot of air to get ample sound, even in the middle range and even then, the sound is not clean or fat, but rather soft , without real clarity? If so, I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Thank you

[BeachDrums]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I assure you, I appreciate it. I will pay more attention that inside the mp is mushy and outside firm. I will also test my embouchure with the quiet tones without using the tongue to start, using "whoo." And, I will think of my embouchure as tasting somthing sour or drawstring bag. I am just wondering if it is possible that my problem could be from failing to keep the corners firm. That is, playing with my entire lips loose, corners and middle/center and with too large an apeture. And, up until about five days ago, I had been playing about 10 minutes of pedals as part of my warm up. Over doing it a bit maybe? Also, here's something I've often wondered about and too embarrassed to ask. We've all heard that one is supposed to rest as much as they play. Now, is that resting as much as you play between each exercise, or is it resting as much as you play between each practice session?

Thanks again for your suggestions. I will give 'em a whorl and hope this frustration will end.

Been "practicing" for 4 years on a 1952 Besson Brevette (England, not France)

MP: 3C

Edited October 10, 2008 by TrumpetCall

[kickhaltsforlife]

in my experience, your corners always need to be firm. That could be causing problems. and the resting, i rest between exercises. Esspecially warm-ups. Some warm-ups can really beat up your chops, so you want to take a little break to let the blood back in and just to reset everything.

If you are constantly playing with no rest, you might injure yourself, and also its really hard to play with little blood flow in your lips.

I'm a low brass players, and i could play pedals all day constantly, and i would be very happy. Of course i would probably pass out a few times. I've never know pedals to wear me out, but it might be different on high brass.. i'm not sure.

I would really concentrate on keeping your corners firm though.

Edit:

Keep corners firm, center should be real soft. Keep everything soft from the center on down. Your corners are the only thing that should be "tense" I hate the word tense.

Edited October 10, 2008 by kickhaltsforlife

[Drew Wilkie]

I forgot to talk about pitch!

There are two different kinds of pitch center: subjective, and objective.

Subjective pitch center is the place on any given note where you feel the most comfortable. Objective pitch center is the true pitch center of the mouthpiece and instrument...again, on any given note. If these two centers don't line up, then everything will suffer, especially the quality of sound.

Most people have a subjective pitch center that is sharp, relative to the objective pitch center. This causes a "dark", diffuse, dull, tight sound with no projection or clarity. This disconnect between the player and his equipment is VERY commonplace. This is why people have endurance problems!

There is a pretty simple way to relieve the tension associated with playing above the objective pitch center. Take a PITCH GENERATOR, not a tuner, and push your tuning slide in a quarter inch. Then practice holding long tones whilst matching the pitch generator. When that becomes natural, push the tuning slide in another quarter inch, and repeat the process. This will force your embouchure to relax down into the objective pitch center, ultimately causing the subjective and objective pitch centers to line up. All of the sudden, you'll have a crystal clear sound with minimal effort.

Try it! Worked for me.

[kickhaltsforlife]

I forgot to talk about pitch!

There are two different kinds of pitch center: subjective, and objective.

Subjective pitch center is the place on any given note where you feel the most comfortable. Objective pitch center is the true pitch center of the mouthpiece and instrument...again, on any given note. If these two centers don't line up, then everything will suffer, especially the quality of sound.

Most people have a subjective pitch center that is sharp, relative to the objective pitch center. This causes a "dark", diffuse, dull, tight sound with no projection or clarity. This disconnect between the player and his equipment is VERY commonplace. This is why people have endurance problems!

There is a pretty simple way to relieve the tension associated with playing above the objective pitch center. Take a PITCH GENERATOR, not a tuner, and push your tuning slide in a quarter inch. Then practice holding long tones whilst matching the pitch generator. When that becomes natural, push the tuning slide in another quarter inch, and repeat the process. This will force your embouchure to relax down into the objective pitch center, ultimately causing the subjective and objective pitch centers to line up. All of the sudden, you'll have a crystal clear sound with minimal effort.

Try it! Worked for me.

what happens if your flat, i'm just wondering, i've already done a lot of work with pitch center, and i am currently working on it still, and i've noticed i've been going flat on a lot of open or first position notes. Am i just relaxing too much? Have i over done it a bit?