derbydawg Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Good choices Spirit Administration !!! Their drum line was smokin last year and perhaps the most miss-ranked section of any corps. Looks like the brass may make a turn for the much better after several years of merely OK. This sounds like great news for many reasons. Besides loving Scott Boerma's arrangements, his recent band compositions are nothing to yawn at either. Though there are some composers writing for band music that also write for corps, in my opinion, Boerma's stuff is by far superior. Music with real depth of compositional knowhow. Check out his fanfares including "Cityscape". I have friends that have worked with Andy Putnam that say he is also the real deal. A great teacher and solid musician. Though he turned Glassmen around in one season. Too band he didn't stay. That exciting 10-17 rank area already looks to be more interesting in 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirrormen Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Yeah, most these guys were at Glassmen in 2007. Then they left for 2008. If anything, the 2008 Glassmen hornline should have gotten more credit because when these guys left, only 10 hornline vets stayed for the next year. So the hornline worked really hard with lots of rookies and deserved some credit for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdcoast Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Good choices Spirit Administration !!! Their drum line was smokin last year and perhaps the most miss-ranked section of any corps. Looks like the brass may make a turn for the much better after several years of merely OK. This sounds like great news for many reasons. Besides loving Scott Boerma's arrangements, his recent band compositions are nothing to yawn at either. Though there are some composers writing for band music that also write for corps, in my opinion, Boerma's stuff is by far superior. Music with real depth of compositional knowhow. Check out his fanfares including "Cityscape". I have friends that have worked with Andy Putnam that say he is also the real deal. A great teacher and solid musician. Though he turned Glassmen around in one season. Too band he didn't stay. That exciting 10-17 rank area already looks to be more interesting in 2009. And if you watch the 1984 Madison Scouts you can see him March! Baritones Rule! Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trumpetcam Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Good choices Spirit Administration !!! Their drum line was smokin last year and perhaps the most miss-ranked section of any corps. Looks like the brass may make a turn for the much better after several years of merely OK. Interesting that everyone seems to think that just bringing in these guys will make all the difference in the world... Quite possibly the fact that they are an established staff that has worked together may be the big reason for that and having Mark organizing. However, if you look at brass staff talent in the past 4 years, the leadership has been outstanding, just not supported very well by the administration. You won't fine educators better than Chip Crotts (Caption Head 06,07, Phantom Co-Caption Head 08) and Ray Vasquez. Anyone that heard Spirit 06 and 07 will tell you that those hornlines played with anyone in the activity on a given night. They just had too many issues from a visual standpoint, both staff and designwise, to help them out at all. Compare their resumes and you might be surprised at how talented the brass staff has been recently.. Maybe the perception is that they haven't had much of a brass staff, but anyone that knows these guys will tell you otherwise. it was just a situation of no support otherwise. Sorry to be defensive, but it gets old hearing these "wonder staffs" who are going to save the corps from their obviously mediocre teaching before... It's about organizational skills, not just talent. Spirit has had student talent and staff talent, just no organizational skills to speak of. Mark and his team should be able to fix these issues and although his incoming staff is not necessarily more talented, should have better support and a better plan up front, and THAT should help to make the most difference. I think merely having a plan and having someone like Mark in charge of his staff will fix things pretty quickly. Great to hear these guys are all fine teachers. I don't happen to know any of them very well. Good luck to Spirit and to all the new staff this year!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbydawg Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Interesting that everyone seems to think that just bringing in these guys will make all the difference in the world... Quite possibly the fact that they are an established staff that has worked together may be the big reason for that and having Mark organizing. However, if you look at brass staff talent in the past 4 years, the leadership has been outstanding, just not supported very well by the administration. You won't fine educators better than Chip Crotts (Caption Head 06,07, Phantom Co-Caption Head 08) and Ray Vasquez. Anyone that heard Spirit 06 and 07 will tell you that those hornlines played with anyone in the activity on a given night. They just had too many issues from a visual standpoint, both staff and designwise, to help them out at all. Compare their resumes and you might be surprised at how talented the brass staff has been recently.. Maybe the perception is that they haven't had much of a brass staff, but anyone that knows these guys will tell you otherwise. it was just a situation of no support otherwise. Sorry to be defensive, but it gets old hearing these "wonder staffs" who are going to save the corps from their obviously mediocre teaching before... It's about organizational skills, not just talent. Spirit has had student talent and staff talent, just no organizational skills to speak of. Mark and his team should be able to fix these issues and although his incoming staff is not necessarily more talented, should have better support and a better plan up front, and THAT should help to make the most difference. I think merely having a plan and having someone like Mark in charge of his staff will fix things pretty quickly. Great to hear these guys are all fine teachers. I don't happen to know any of them very well. Good luck to Spirit and to all the new staff this year!! Not sure anyone has said the new guys will save the day, whatever that means. Seems like all the posts here are simply saying that the brass staff seems to be experienced and talented. You seem to have the inside scoop, so either you marched there or you were on brass staff during the years you have mentioned. Probably brass staff since members are usually not informed as to details or rumors of lack of admin support. Either way, to state there was NO support, or NO help at all, NO organizational skills to speak of, and that the administration did not support the brass staff is pretty one sided and pretty harsh, especially if you were a staff member at the time or are currently a staff member. Unless those other staff people are evil, I cannot imagine there not being some sort of effort to make all things about the corps better, including the brass. If you are still a staff member, I hope all those bad staff members have gone away. If not, I would assume you still blame them for issues, so is there staff division there? The two brass guys you mentioned probably have great resumes. But who was teaching with them? It just seems that instead of two people with good resumes, its like ten people with good resumes (resumes don't necessarily make for good teaching in my opinion, results in any situation do). That seems real positive to me. I like Spirit and want them to do well. As for the 2006 and 2007 horn line, while they sound good a lot of the time, no way do they compare to most of the top twelve from those years. Play with anyone in the activity on any given night? Not really. People are just excited to see a corps that needs changes to be making changes. According to the post from Spirit, at least some of last year's brass staff was retained, so somebody thinks there was some talent there before and is interested in brining in some additional talent. I am excited to see someone kick ### besides the same old groups (I want them to stay good too). I hope all are excited for Spirit. We can't afford to loose anymore corps, so better to support everyone's potential success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trumpetcam Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 (edited) Nope never taught there, just a perceptive musician and person who knew staff and students, and has a good understanding of how successful groups work. We all want to see Spirit succeed, and I never said there was NO support, just not the kind that I think they will get with these new guys and their team. Spirit's issues have always seemed to lie in management and lack of strong organizational skills, and it's unfortunate that the recent staff has had to suffer from this in the past. As for the new brass guys, I can promise you that very few of them will spend much time on tour. They will most likely do a few camps and a week or two in the summer, just like they did at Scouts and Glassmen. It will likely be Mark, Ray and 2 or 3 other guys most of the summer. Same thing a Crown or BD does. Doesn't mean they want be able to change the perception, but it is what it is, let's be honest. However, you are right that just having the consistency of a strong staff that has worked together and is on the same page will work better, much like what Crown does with their big staff. It's all for the best and we all hope this helps bring them back into the top twelve not only this year, but for good. Edited November 9, 2008 by trumpetcam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbydawg Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Nope never taught there, just a perceptive musician and person who knew staff and students, and has a good understanding of how successful groups work.We all want to see Spirit succeed, and I never said there was NO support, just not the kind that I think they will get with these new guys and their team. Spirit's issues have always seemed to lie in management and lack of strong organizational skills, and it's unfortunate that the recent staff has had to suffer from this in the past. As for the new brass guys, I can promise you that very few of them will spend much time on tour. They will most likely do a few camps and a week or two in the summer, just like they did at Scouts and Glassmen. It will likely be Mark, Ray and 2 or 3 other guys most of the summer. Same thing a Crown or BD does. Doesn't mean they want be able to change the perception, but it is what it is, let's be honest. However, you are right that just having the consistency of a strong staff that has worked together and is on the same page will work better, much like what Crown does with their big staff. It's all for the best and we all hope this helps bring them back into the top twelve not only this year, but for good. Trumpetcam, Just as it bothers you that people get excited about the potential of new "wonder-staff teams" to make all the difference, I have some things in the community that bother me. When fans present information as fact about negative issues with corps, it does nothing but hurt and stir up rumor. I try to support all corps and leave the gossip to those who have not really thought about what publicly stated negative gossip does to the activity. Your response of stating you never said there was "NO support" is inaccurate. Re-read your own post. You state several times in different forms that the brass staff was "not supported very well by the administration, no support otherwise" and that the administration had "no organizational skills to speak of." Wasn't the current director on the Spirit staff before recently becoming director? So are you in part pointing a finger at him? Wasn't the previous director a staff member at JSU and a colleague of Chip Crotts? Are you blaming him for these issues? Wasn't he largely responsible for rescuing Spirit from folding? If you have not been and are currently not on staff, how do you have all of these "facts" beyond being "perceptive, knowing staff and students, and knowing how a successful group works?" How can you promise very few of the new guys will spend time on tour? How do you know what they did at Scouts or Glassmen, unless you have some reliable firsthand knowledge? If you are not on staff then your facts (opinions) are based on second or third hand knowledge, even more reason to not publicly state negative issues as fact. Though you state I am right by saying "that just having the consistency of a strong staff that has worked together and is on the same page will work much better," I never stated that in my post, though I completely agree. Has that idea been stated to you from within the organization? Sure you are not on staff and have some first hand knowledge? We do agree that it would be good to see Spirit back in the top twelve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trumpetcam Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 DD, I think better left well enough alone and that we agree on seeing Spirit do well. Past is past and hope this is a new and fresh start for them this season. It has been a blessing for them to be at JSU and although their have been some negatives, the very fact that JSU took them under their wing and gave them a home is awesome. Otherwise, we wouldn't even be able to have this conversation. it would be like Bridgemen and 27th Lancers. I am sure only good will come out of this and we will both enjoy seeing the results at shows this summer. TC PS And no, I am not on staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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