Open Class corps should have a shot at SemiFinals

[Pinwiz]

Blah blah blah blah complaints.

All these complaints about everything that DCI is doing wrong. All this talk about the death of Open Class. All the lamenting and gnashing of teeth and sackcloth and ashes. Some of it might even be justified. If this worries you so much

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

What is the one thing you can do between now and Finals that will make a difference? Pledge one thing that extends beyond #####ing on DCP that you will do in the next 10 days that will be a small pebble fighting the tide. Pledge it here, and prove that you have the courage of your convictions.

EDIT: My pledge? I'm going to Open Class Finals, even if I'm hung over. I'm going to get as many of my Finals group there with me. If I can get everyone, then that's 10 people in the stands. I'll let you know how things turn out.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Pinwiz

[Lonnieg1906]

Blah blah blah blah complaints.

All these complaints about everything that DCI is doing wrong. All this talk about the death of Open Class. All the lamenting and gnashing of teeth and sackcloth and ashes. Some of it might even be justified. If this worries you so much

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

What is the one thing you can do between now and Finals that will make a difference? Pledge one thing that extends beyond #####ing on DCP that you will do in the next 10 days that will be a small pebble fighting the tide. Pledge it here, and prove that you have the courage of your convictions.

EDIT: My pledge? I'm going to Open Class Finals, even if I'm hung over. I'm going to get as many of my Finals group there with me. If I can get everyone, then that's 10 people in the stands. I'll let you know how things turn out.

WTG Pinwiz.

I'm so glad that some else has the same view that I have on all of the complaints.

[kusankusho]

For Lonnie and Pinwiz - what do you suggest we do about it?

I mean - you don't mind if we - oh I don't know - discuss what we think about it? Post our views? You know, like you're allowed to do on a forum?

If you think the thread is of no interest to you, don't bother opening it up. Life is really pretty simple sometimes.

Thank you.....

[Lonnieg1906]

For Lonnie and Pinwiz - what do you suggest we do about it?

I mean - you don't mind if we - oh I don't know - discuss what we think about it? Post our views? You know, like you're allowed to do on a forum?

If you think the thread is of no interest to you, don't bother opening it up. Life is really pretty simple sometimes.

Thank you.....

Right, life is simple sometimes. So why complain about something that you have NO control over? Just enjoy, or try to enjoy the activity without trying to be so picky.

Get on someone’s staff, or become a DCI judge if you think you can do better.

If not, don’t get mad if someone makes a remark that’s not dealing with you.

And thank you too.

Edited July 30, 2009 by Lonnieg1906

[oldschooldbc]

Very accurate post... Not saying I agree that's what should happen though.

Then let me say something truly heretical - and if you wish to burn me at the stake, please prepare your wood and gasoline now:

Maybe the 20 competitive OC corps need to form their own organization. Today. Maybe they need to do this as a matter or survival, not of choice. If the directors of the WC corps are really that hostile to OC, then maybe the OC corps have to split off. If the WC directors really want to wipe out OC, then perhaps there's no other option, if the majority of OC corps want to survive.

There are perhaps 1 or 2 OC corps that have the resources to make it in WC today. The others could be there in 5-10 years. But what happens if the WC directors pull the plug, before that point in time? Do the other 20 outfits simply go extinct? We're talking about thousands of youths that won't have an opportunity to march! Outrageous!

This may seem drastic, but look back at what was taking place before DCI was formed in 1972. Both VFW and CYO were a mess. Judging was terrible. Clearly, there was a need for better organization. So the powers-that-be formed DCI.

Maybe the same process needs to happen again.

Let me reiterate: I am a Revo parent, but my opinions are my own. My opinions do not reflect those of Revo management, staff, or any intelligent person.

[Rifuarian]

Right, life is simple sometimes. So why complain about something that you have NO control over? Just enjoy, or try to enjoy the activity without trying to be so picky.

Get on someone’s staff, or become a DCI judge if you think you can do better.

If not, don’t get mad if someone makes a remark that’s not dealing with you.

And thank you too.

While I don't agree with the folks blaming DCI for the demise of open class, I'm happy to hear their opinions. This is a discussion board, after all. No one is under any delusion that what we say here is going to make much of a difference. It's just nice to be able to air your opinions.

But I do urge anyone concerned about Open Class to see as many shows as possible, and plunk down money at their souvie trucks instead of at the Cavies, Cadets, Devs, etc. That's the only way a real difference is going to be made. But as a realist I know that's not going to happen as long as attending an open class show is seen as a chore by most fans instead of a delight.

[Lonnieg1906]

Then let me say something truly heretical - and if you wish to burn me at the stake, please prepare your wood and gasoline now:

Maybe the 20 competitive OC corps need to form their own organization. Today. Maybe they need to do this as a matter or survival, not of choice. If the directors of the WC corps are really that hostile to OC, then maybe the OC corps have to split off. If the WC directors really want to wipe out OC, then perhaps there's no other option, if the majority of OC corps want to survive.

There are perhaps 1 or 2 OC corps that have the resources to make it in WC today. The others could be there in 5-10 years. But what happens if the WC directors pull the plug, before that point in time? Do the other 20 outfits simply go extinct? We're talking about thousands of youths that won't have an opportunity to march! Outrageous!

This may seem drastic, but look back at what was taking place before DCI was formed in 1972. Both VFW and CYO were a mess. Judging was terrible. Clearly, there was a need for better organization. So the powers-that-be formed DCI.

Maybe the same process needs to happen again.

Let me reiterate: I am a Revo parent, but my opinions are my own. My opinions do not reflect those of Revo management, staff, or any intelligent person.

Ok, you have some great points there. But wouldn’t it be betting to take these ideas somewhere where they could do some good. Posting them on DCP won’t get the job done. You need to take these to DCI as a concerned parent. My son is just about to turn four. But when he’s old enough to march, and I have a problem, I will go through and to the proper channels. I won’t try to get into something that is so heart felt on DCP.

I don’t wish to burn you at the stake. It’s really hard to tell someone’s tone of voice on here. So I hope that you don’t thing that I’m trying to get nasty with you. That’s just not me.

[3rd_Star_Brigade]

I know last year(s?) Blue Stars let a fan submit a rule change about miced equipment or something. Perhaps a world class corps would consider submitting a fan-written rule change on the nature of Open Class competition in World Class.

Here's how I can see this rule change being written and passing:

The Corps Placement at Quarterfinals will determine the following, that-

1. An Open Class Drum & Bugle Corps may have the option to compete in World Class competition if they are in the top 3 of the division and a DCI supervisor finds that doing so would not negatively impact the corps' organization, financially. (this ensures that the corps will not become bankrupt and is competitively legit)

2. The Drum Corps shall perform and compete in Open Class Championships, regardless of the move to World Class Quarters. (this ensures that DCI will maintain the normal income from Open Class seats and that fans will not feel cheated; this was note the case before)

3. The scoring system, and subsequent placement in DCI World Class Quarter and Semi Finals, used will not impact World Class Corps whose competitive placement for Semi-Finals and a Finals seat is in competition with the Open Class Corps. (In other words, if an Open Class Corps is in 12th and makes finals, there would be 13 corps on finals night)

This system would work and give all the corps a fair shot. Also, I should point out that, say Star of Indiana returns(they have to be in Open Class), and they are just like they were in 90-93 (awesome!), they would be crowned the world champions of world class if in 1st at the end of the night. The World Class corps who was the top of the World Class pack, lets say the 27th Lancers, would be knocked down to second. In other words, placement and score doesn't effect the number of corps who can compete, but the winner at the end.

This is the only way the rule could be added to keep the legitimacy of both divisions.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[silvertrombone]

agree the stadium cost is an issue. then again, with some marketing, by DCI and the OC corps themselves, attendance could grow. sometimes you have to spend money to make money

oh yeah and tour where people can see you

They don't have any money...supposedly. But, yeah--marketing is something that DCI does terribly.

1.) OK, I'm over it. If internet distribution is the only economically viable model, then fine. Fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, fine. (p.s., I thought Kurt Gowdy did an excellent job of calling finals on the old PBS shows - even though he clearly had very little idea what he was talking about.)

2.) But DCI needs to promote the service to non-fans, to make them fans. They need to drive traffic to this service. If that means they need to pay $ to Google, Yahoo, or the other search engines, to build traffic to this service, then they need to pay it. Again, marketing is key. And no form of marketing is free.

3.) TV broadcasts aren't just about making money. They also build up your fan base. It's about exposuing your product to people who have never seen it before. Then, maybe they will want to come to a show sometime. And maybe - just maybe - they will want to join a corps themselves someday. Who knows, it may be an OC corps, instead of PR or Cavies.

1.) Great! Now we can chat. Internet may not be the only, but it's probably the MOST cost effective option. Little expense, relatively, and much of the revenue can be plugged directly into DCI programs, corps, or invested back into shows, etc.

2.) No marketing is free, but they had to let staff go, cut down on judging panels and reduce expenses in other areas just to have a tour the last two years. We may be 2-3 years away from their being able to do the things they need to up exposure. But I agree about google, etc.

3.) If we want to see OC corps getting their just due attention, etc, AND be able to drive some exposure to them, how about having OC Finals in conjunction with a WC prelims? OC corps performing in between WC corps, top "X" OC corps go on to WC 1/4's? One more performance for corps, bigger crowd for OC corps, GREAT lead-in to prelims. And OC gets to perform in the BIG HOUSE. Thoughts??? The stadium pays for itself if BD, Cavs and PR are there. Placing OC corps in between WC corps...maybe some issues there, but intriguing.

Blah blah blah blah complaints.

All these complaints about everything that DCI is doing wrong. All this talk about the death of Open Class. All the lamenting and gnashing of teeth and sackcloth and ashes. Some of it might even be justified. If this worries you so much

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

What is the one thing you can do between now and Finals that will make a difference? Pledge one thing that extends beyond #####ing on DCP that you will do in the next 10 days that will be a small pebble fighting the tide. Pledge it here, and prove that you have the courage of your convictions.

EDIT: My pledge? I'm going to Open Class Finals, even if I'm hung over. I'm going to get as many of my Finals group there with me. If I can get everyone, then that's 10 people in the stands. I'll let you know how things turn out.

Well, I won't be able to do anything before Finals, but I came up with two really great ideas that would go along really, really well with something that I discussed this spring with 3-4 corps. Will you let that count???

Guys, don't underestimate the influence we have right here on DCP. I've been contacted before by DCI staff and corps management after posting comments here. Despite what you negative types say, they ARE listening to us. So I just keep on blah, blah, blah'ing. In absence of being able to cut a check or otherwise "do" something, that's the best thing I have to offer--my mind. Several of you are likewise impressive, creative sorts. Ignore the cheeseheads...they wouldn't know a good idea if they cut it out of plastic, painted it yellow and stuck it on their heads.

[oldschooldbc]

Ok, you have some great points there. But wouldn’t it be betting to take these ideas somewhere where they could do some good. Posting them on DCP won’t get the job done. You need to take these to DCI as a concerned parent.

OK, I have no illusions that Dan Acheson will log on to DCP tonight, read this thread, and say to himself, "Gee, why didn't I think of that? I need to follow their advice, and take immediate action to save OC! Why wasn't I thinking of that?"

But at a minimum, the ideas we discuss here can be spread through this forum. And if enough concerned individuals are contacted, and take action, then you will see effective change. That is the chief utility that I see of these types of forums.

That is how grass-roots movements begin. They begin with communication.