Open Class corps should have a shot at SemiFinals

[Jeff Ream]

I think there is merit to every one of your counterpoints but they are all tremendously overstated, over analyzed. We are talking about the opportunity to compete on one night to create the most interesting competitive end to the season possible.

Kids choose corps for a lot of different reasons. Nothing that happens, or does not happen, during QF's is going to have a significant impact on where kids choose to march. There will always be a segment of the OC kids that aspire to something else.

Your points about the rules in place and needing to show financial stability are interesting, but again, we are talking about one night. This does not have to undermine the financial oversight that is currently in place. You can leave all the hoops in place to ensure that when an OC corps decides they are ready for a WC tour that they are fiscally able to do so. The opportunity to compete one night in QF's does not take away from that. If anything, it reduces the chance a corps will bite off more than they are ready for in an effort to get there.

You've played the "they don't want it card" many times here. So what? There are many perspectives to consider, including the fans. Obviously some of us want it. Further the fact that a formal proposal has not been made is far from compelling evidence that none of the OC leadership would be in favor given an acceptable format.

I have heard only two arguments against allowing OC in QF's that are compelling to me:

1. Earning a spot in semis has a positive financial impact on the WC corps. If they get bumped by an OC corps and lose that money it would not be fair.

I agree with that thought process. So... BDB competes and takes 17th, and Pacific Crest takes 18th. BDB as an OC corps gets no financial benefit the following year, Pacific Crest does get the financial benefit. BDB moves on to compete in semis.

2. Under the current schedule if just the elite were invited to QF's it would require DCI to rent the major facility for another day or all of the other OC corps would lose the chance to march in the big stadium.

This is a big deal in my mind. Any plan would need to allow for everyone the opportunity to march in the big venue. I don't know enough about the logistics to offer a plan. Some posters have actually implied, or seemed to imply, that it could be done for this year. That is totally out of the question, but I do believe there is a schedule that could be workable for everyone. The corps that are invited to QF's do not have to be based upon OC finals. You could certainly use earlier results.

The idea that this will impact low attendance figures at OC events and that those must improve prior to given this idea any consideration is an absolute red herring IMO. While it would be great to see as many folks in the stands as possible, the class has a smaller fan base and nothing is going to change that. I don't buy the argument that it would have a negative impact on OC events during finals week. The small numbers that do turn out are a dedicated group, most of whom have some tie to a current marching member. They will attend regardless.

I think the worst thing I have seen with respect to OC vs. WC is this nearly completely split tour schedule for the corps. Take the Citations for example. They are doing very well and competing for the OC title. They have been in exactly ONE show with World Class competition. Every other contest has been an OC only show. I think this format stinks for the kids. Some of my very best memories are from shows I was at with my 50 person corps, 20 person hornline, and seeing the Blue Devils, The Vanguard, The Freelancers, VK, Seattle Imperials, Valley Fever. They were all bigger than life to us. Just walking through the busses in the lot and maybe talking to someone, or watching a warmup, etc. was amazing. These kids don't get that chance today.

if the fans want it, they need to find a director to propose it. we did see a Blue Stars parent propose to remove amps, and he was laughed out of the place. I can see a similar situation here. And let's be honest....DCI does wnat the fans want when they lose money and enough fans #####. a few people in this thread isn't enough to make them act.

honestly....there is no win for putting those corps there. you risk turning Wc corps against them, and how many fans talking the talk on here would actually go see them?

[kusankusho]

I think there is merit to every one of your counterpoints but they are all tremendously overstated, over analyzed. We are talking about the opportunity to compete on one night to create the most interesting competitive end to the season possible.

This is all. I don't get all the angst and gnashing of teeth.

It's not like I'm proposing a rule change for woodwinds here....

[bmroth1]

2. Under the current schedule if just the elite were invited to QF's it would require DCI to rent the major facility for another day or all of the other OC corps would lose the chance to march in the big stadium.

This is a big deal in my mind. Any plan would need to allow for everyone the opportunity to march in the big venue. I don't know enough about the logistics to offer a plan. Some posters have actually implied, or seemed to imply, that it could be done for this year. That is totally out of the question, but I do believe there is a schedule that could be workable for everyone. The corps that are invited to QF's do not have to be based upon OC finals. You could certainly use earlier results.

The idea that this will impact low attendance figures at OC events and that those must improve prior to given this idea any consideration is an absolute red herring IMO. While it would be great to see as many folks in the stands as possible, the class has a smaller fan base and nothing is going to change that. I don't buy the argument that it would have a negative impact on OC events during finals week. The small numbers that do turn out are a dedicated group, most of whom have some tie to a current marching member. They will attend regardless.

I think the worst thing I have seen with respect to OC vs. WC is this nearly completely split tour schedule for the corps. Take the Citations for example. They are doing very well and competing for the OC title. They have been in exactly ONE show with World Class competition. Every other contest has been an OC only show. I think this format stinks for the kids. Some of my very best memories are from shows I was at with my 50 person corps, 20 person hornline, and seeing the Blue Devils, The Vanguard, The Freelancers, VK, Seattle Imperials, Valley Fever. They were all bigger than life to us. Just walking through the busses in the lot and maybe talking to someone, or watching a warmup, etc. was amazing. These kids don't get that chance today.

Ill put this in again because I think that it addresses issue#2 your talking about quite well...

Instead of calling Michigan City OC quarterfinals.... call it The Open Class Series championship or some other catchy name..... Use the average scores from blank # of shows from the season (like the WC regional competitions) to set up placement going into The OC Series Championship in Michigan City IN. The Prize is: The top 3 earn the right to compete in WC quarterfinals. OC Semifinals becomes OC prelims but you have 2 more corps competing in it. OC finals remains OC finals. This gives more meaning to some of the regular season OC shows as well. I bet it would increase attendance in Michigan City too and It doesn't have to interfere with finals as we know it. Scheduling can stay the same and DCI doesn't have to add a day's rent at Lucas Oil. Using Michigan City for no other reason than to eliminate 2 corps makes absolutely no sense to me whether you call it quarterfinals or whatever else. Makes Michigan city a more meaningful show then it is now and also gives all the OC corps a chance to compete at Indy.

Edited August 1, 2009 by bmroth1

[drumcorpsfan4567]

Ill put this in again because I think that it addresses issue#2 your talking about quite well...

Instead of calling Michigan City OC quarterfinals.... call it The Open Class Series championship or some other catchy name..... Use the average scores from blank # of shows from the season (like the WC regional competitions) to set up placement going into The OC Series Championship in Michigan City IN. The Prize is: The top 3 earn the right to compete in WC quarterfinals. OC Semifinals becomes OC prelims but you have 2 more corps competing in it. OC finals remains OC finals. This gives more meaning to some of the regular season OC shows as well. I bet it would increase attendance in Michigan City too and It doesn't have to interfere with finals as we know it. Scheduling can stay the same and DCI doesn't have to add a day's rent at Lucas Oil. Using Michigan City for no other reason than to eliminate 2 corps makes absolutely no sense to me whether you call it quarterfinals or whatever else. Makes Michigan city a more meaningful show then it is now and also gives all the OC corps a chance to compete at Indy.

Maybe you should start a new thread for this proposal so everyone will see it?

[bmroth1]

Maybe you should start a new thread for this proposal so everyone will see it?

Yes I was thinking about that and think I will...

[Tom Brace]

boy I really have an art of killing a thread. I just stop posting.

Good to see this nonsense is over.

Fans DO NOT control this activity because...each fan has a slightly different view of things. Fans do not speak with one voice.

The Open Class corps are most likely in for more changes...I'm hearing rumors of at least 4 corps not being in Open Class finals next season and that might jump to 5. All for a variety of reasons.

I also think OC Semis and Finals should just be at Michigan City unless the attendance in Indy beats that of Michigan City (doubtful it will).

Anyway, this is a World Class forum and the WC corps are growing with the promise of at least three more corps over the next three seasons.

WC looks like the place to be right now.

[Jeff Ream]

boy I really have an art of killing a thread. I just stop posting.

Good to see this nonsense is over.

Fans DO NOT control this activity because...each fan has a slightly different view of things. Fans do not speak with one voice.

The Open Class corps are most likely in for more changes...I'm hearing rumors of at least 4 corps not being in Open Class finals next season and that might jump to 5. All for a variety of reasons.

I also think OC Semis and Finals should just be at Michigan City unless the attendance in Indy beats that of Michigan City (doubtful it will).

Anyway, this is a World Class forum and the WC corps are growing with the promise of at least three more corps over the next three seasons.

WC looks like the place to be right now.

which, for better or for worse, has been the game plan all along

[bmroth1]

boy I really have an art of killing a thread. I just stop posting.

Good to see this nonsense is over.

Fans DO NOT control this activity because...each fan has a slightly different view of things. Fans do not speak with one voice.

The Open Class corps are most likely in for more changes...I'm hearing rumors of at least 4 corps not being in Open Class finals next season and that might jump to 5. All for a variety of reasons.

I also think OC Semis and Finals should just be at Michigan City unless the attendance in Indy beats that of Michigan City (doubtful it will).

Anyway, this is a World Class forum and the WC corps are growing with the promise of at least three more corps over the next three seasons.

WC looks like the place to be right now.

Never mind...reread your post and got my answer....

Edited August 3, 2009 by bmroth1

[txorchdork013]

Ok well they still get MORE exposure (also I doubt everyone there will know about open class already). Plus, if some are good enough to make semifinals, then they get more exposure then.

Now I am not sure if this is on topic or somewhere off on a tangent, but I was skimming the All-Corps review and I found an interesting statement from the OP in his opening statement before the review at this link:

http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...howtopic=128170

that may pertain to this discussion. I wasn't quite sure, but it does relay some of the sentiments of Open Class fans that have been discussed on this thread. And, for note, II have been a WC fan for a long time but am a rookie Open Class fan of three years because of the same issues that the linked post brought up.

[txorchdork013]

It (the lack of fan support) is the stark fact that few are willing to face up to when this topic comes up. I hear a lot of sanctimonious posturing on DCP, in the stands at world class shows, and elsewhere about the state of open class and DCI's "responsibility", but the fact is that beyond family, friends, staff, and alumni very few drum corps fans bother to show up for open class shows. And the legacy fans who bemoan the death local corps are just as guilty as the band kids and the recent vets of world class shows. DCI has no responsibility to the little corps. It was created by the big dogs for the big dogs. Even so, they've done a lot more than most people are willing to believe, and have probably kept small, junior drum corps alive much longer than it would have lasted on its own. But as long as there's no fan interest they're not going to do anything more.

As for myself, I find open class corps fantastically entertaining. Of course, I spent two summers in a small corps, and I also find myself entertained by small marching bands in my native state (Kentucky) that can't even qualify for the state competition. Clearly, the standards of entertainment for most fans are much higher than my own. Maybe if more open class corps abandoned the overwrought designs that so many world class corps it would make a difference. But probably not.

About giving tickets away for free . . . they're practically free already. Most of the fans who buy the five show ticket package just throw away the open class tickets. I don't really think it would be any different if DCI shipped free open class finals tickets with world class finals tickets. The majority of them would go in the trash. It's sad, but that's the way it is.

Blue Devils B, Vanguard Cadets take top spots after Open Class 'seeding' events

By Justin Herberger | jherberger@dci.org

Monday, August 3, 2009 - 10:45 AM

Blue Devils B drum majors Andrew Wood and Eddy Pineda said the corps is pleased with Sunday’s performance as well as their progress this season.

“Everyone really pushed through the show tonight,” Wood said. “Everything we worked on in practice really showed up in our performance.”

Wood says the corps’ drive for perfection has paid off this summer. “We’ve been working hard and I think the members really enjoy the opportunity to perform for a great crowd. This is an Open Class corps, but we rehearse like a World Class corps.”

DCI NEWS

If competing with the WC is what gets a bigger audience for the kids then so be it though in my opinion I think the kids would be just as happy to win their division and perform their championship show during WC finals...perhaps before retreat and awards...when the crowd is huge.

Edited August 3, 2009 by txorchdork013