The Dayton Drama

[PrfctTimeOfDay]

Okay, so I sat through most of prelims and all of finals at the WGI regional today/yesterday. As many of you know, I like to post my thoughts on the guards I see, and I usually will post a corresponding photo of each unit, so it gives you a quick glimpse of them in action at the show. My game plan for this weekend was to take in the shows Saturday as a fan and just enjoy the experience and then on Sunday take the photos and start to mentally organize my thoughts on the review I would put together. Here’s where the drama starts. About halfway through A class, I’m approached by an usher who was kind in reminding me that video was not allowed, I let her know that I was just taking pictures, she said okay and I thought that was the end of it. Now, we are about 2 guards into SO class and I’m approached by the WGI contest chair Tom Hachmeister ( I made sure to look at his nametag) Let me try to recount this conversation as best as I can:

Tom: Are you taking video?

Me: No

Tom: Are you with Gates Chili (sidenote, this happened right after Gates Chili’s performance)

Me: No

Tom: you’re only allowed to take pictures of your unit

Me: Really? So, you’re saying I can’t take pictures?

Tom: You’re not supposed to, it’s a copyright issue, WGI owns the rights.

Me: Ok

Sidenote… I was taking a handful of pictures of each unit, but was not using a flash, nor was I videotaping, so I thought I was well within my right to take pictures, I had never heard there was a ‘no photography’ rule.

So…after my conversation with Tom, I sat through Kokomo’s performance completely stunned, and then sat through Walled Lake’s show fuming. By the time Lake Central took the floor, I was in all out b*tch mode and walked to the admissions table and asked to speak with the contest chair. Let me also say that the Miamisburg volunteers who ran this show were so kind and classy. When I explained what happened, they too thought it didn’t sound right and one of the volunteers said she would check for me. She came back and said there might be something about it in the unit check in, and I asked her to please take me there so I could read it. So down we went to unit check in and while there were some signs/rules, nothing about photography. She then turned to me and offered to let me read the packet that they were given by WGI, there was a little blurb in there about photography, but nothing that said you couldn’t take any. She then went and got Tom again, and he came out and spoke with me again, but I have to admit it was hard to hear him over the music that was playing in the arena. I think he re-iterated that it was a copyright issue. While my experience with the volunteers and parents of Miamisburg was fantastic ( they did everything they could to help me and I really appreciate that) My experience with the WGI staff and their lack of knowledge of their own policies was disheartening. I realize that yesterday there was quite a bit of trouble with people videotaping and arguing about videotaping etc. ( I even saw someone set up a tripod in the stands yesterday) Nonetheless, had Tom or anyone from WGI asked to see my pictures, I gladly would have shown them to them, had they wanted to see if there was any video, I would have let them fiddle with my camera so they could have seen that there was no video. . but none of the happened. Instead, I was accused of videotaping, and then once I said I wasn’t videotaping, I was told I couldn’t take pictures either. I understand that most of these people are volunteers and I appreciate the time they sacrifice for the activity, but I will not allow someone to accuse me of something I didn’t do and moreover I won’t stand for someone telling me I can’t do something I know that I’m well within my right to do. Again, this is an internal WGI administrative issue that I hope is dealt with. ..because on the flipside, the Miamisburg volunteers were extremely professional and empathic, not to mention they run this contest like a well oiled machine. I wish all shows were ran this well, and huge kudos to the burg folks for doing such an excellent job.

But I digress, FYI. . here IS what the WGI policy on photography is:

WGI Photo Policy

As safety is paramount to all performers, any type of flash photography is strictly prohibited. Family, friends and fans may take still photos of WGI events for personal use only. The images may not be sold or otherwise distributed or publicly displayed without the written permission of Winter Guard International. WGI defines public display as a web site, printed publication or physical location where the public at large can gain access to one or more images of a WGI participating group in performance.

Small, non-professional, single frame "point & shoot" cameras are allowed into all venues. However, use of "Professional Cameras" are prohibited at all WGI events, unless the user has appropriate media credentials and prior written approval from Winter Guard International. Any camera that has a detachable lens or lens that extends to four (4) or more inches is considered a "Professional Camera" and thus prohibited.

Tripods or other similar equipment that may obstruct the view or path of travel of others in the stands are also not allowed.

WGI media credentials are restricted to recognized local and national media. Only WGI will issue credentials to working media pursuant to WGI’s media credentialing policies.

As you can see, I was well within my right to take pictures…as they were for my personal use only. I was going to post a picture of each group with the review that I’m going to write, but it looks like that may be in violation of WGI’s policy….geez, you’d think next WGI is going to copyright the air you breathe at their venues.

So much for trying to do something nice for the people who couldn’t make it to the show or for the members, fans and friends of those who performed. Seems like I just can’t win today.

FYI, here is my camera that caused so much scandal today. . .it’s a cheap point and click

PS…I took 329 pictures today, my camera/battery made it until Warren Central. If you’d like to see the pics, send me a PM and I can direct you to them, I will not be posting them publicly, as it will violate WGI’s copyright.

PPS…I might test the waters and post one pic of each group with the review that I do (like I usually do) However, if WGI has an issue with it, I’ll address it then and probably pull the review down. We’ll see how I feel when I put it together later tonight or tomorrow.

Edited February 28, 2010 by PrfctTimeOfDay

[cmguard87]

Okay, so I sat through most of prelims and all of finals at the WGI regional today/yesterday. As many of you know, I like to post my thoughts on the guards I see, and I usually will post a corresponding photo of each unit, so it gives you a quick glimpse of them in action at the show. My game plan for this weekend was to take in the shows Saturday as a fan and just enjoy the experience and then on Sunday take the photos and start to mentally organize my thoughts on the review I would put together. Here’s where the drama starts. About halfway through A class, I’m approached by an usher who was kind in reminding me that video was not allowed, I let her know that I was just taking pictures, she said okay and I thought that was the end of it. Now, we are about 2 guards into SO class and I’m approached by the WGI contest chair Tom Hachmeister ( I made sure to look at his nametag) Let me try to recount this conversation as best as I can:

Tom: Are you taking video?

Me: No

Tom: Are you with Gates Chili (sidenote, this happened right after Gates Chili’s performance)

Me: No

Tom: you’re only allowed to take pictures of your unit

Me: Really? So, you’re saying I can’t take pictures?

Tom: You’re not supposed to, it’s a copyright issue, WGI owns the rights.

Me: Ok

Sidenote… I was taking a handful of pictures of each unit, but was not using a flash, nor was I videotaping, so I thought I was well within my right to take pictures, I had never heard there was a ‘no photography’ rule.

So…after my conversation with Tom, I sat through Kokomo’s performance completely stunned, and then sat through Walled Lake’s show fuming. By the time Lake Central took the floor, I was in all out b*tch mode and walked to the admissions table and asked to speak with the contest chair. Let me also say that the Miamisburg volunteers who ran this show were so kind and classy. When I explained what happened, they too thought it didn’t sound right and one of the volunteers said she would check for me. She came back and said there might be something about it in the unit check in, and I asked her to please take me there so I could read it. So down we went to unit check in and while there were some signs/rules, nothing about photography. She then turned to me and offered to let me read the packet that they were given by WGI, there was a little blurb in there about photography, but nothing that said you couldn’t take any. She then went and got Tom again, and he came out and spoke with me again, but I have to admit it was hard to hear him over the music that was playing in the arena. I think he re-iterated that it was a copyright issue. While my experience with the volunteers and parents of Miamisburg was fantastic ( they did everything they could to help me and I really appreciate that) My experience with the WGI staff and their lack of knowledge of their own policies was disheartening. I realize that yesterday there was quite a bit of trouble with people videotaping and arguing about videotaping etc. ( I even saw someone set up a tripod in the stands yesterday) Nonetheless, had Tom or anyone from WGI asked to see my pictures, I gladly would have shown them to them, had they wanted to see if there was any video, I would have let them fiddle with my camera so they could have seen that there was no video. . but none of the happened. Instead, I was accused of videotaping, and then once I said I wasn’t videotaping, I was told I couldn’t take pictures either. I understand that most of these people are volunteers and I appreciate the time they sacrifice for the activity, but I will not allow someone to accuse me of something I didn’t do and moreover I won’t stand for someone telling me I can’t do something I know that I’m well within my right to do. Again, this is an internal WGI administrative issue that I hope is dealt with. ..because on the flipside, the Miamisburg volunteers were extremely professional and empathic, not to mention they run this contest like a well oiled machine. I wish all shows were ran this well, and huge kudos to the burg folks for doing such an excellent job.

But I digress, FYI. . here IS what the WGI policy on photography is:

WGI Photo Policy

As safety is paramount to all performers, any type of flash photography is strictly prohibited. Family, friends and fans may take still photos of WGI events for personal use only. The images may not be sold or otherwise distributed or publicly displayed without the written permission of Winter Guard International. WGI defines public display as a web site, printed publication or physical location where the public at large can gain access to one or more images of a WGI participating group in performance.

Small, non-professional, single frame "point & shoot" cameras are allowed into all venues. However, use of "Professional Cameras" are prohibited at all WGI events, unless the user has appropriate media credentials and prior written approval from Winter Guard International. Any camera that has a detachable lens or lens that extends to four (4) or more inches is considered a "Professional Camera" and thus prohibited.

Tripods or other similar equipment that may obstruct the view or path of travel of others in the stands are also not allowed.

WGI media credentials are restricted to recognized local and national media. Only WGI will issue credentials to working media pursuant to WGI’s media credentialing policies.

As you can see, I was well within my right to take pictures…as they were for my personal use only. I was going to post a picture of each group with the review that I’m going to write, but it looks like that may be in violation of WGI’s policy….geez, you’d think next WGI is going to copyright the air you breathe at their venues.

So much for trying to do something nice for the people who couldn’t make it to the show or for the members, fans and friends of those who performed. Seems like I just can’t win today.

FYI, here is my camera that caused so much scandal today. . .it’s a cheap point and click

PS…I took 329 pictures today, my camera/battery made it until Warren Central. If you’d like to see the pics, send me a PM and I can direct you to them, I will not be posting them publicly, as it will violate WGI’s copyright.

PPS…I might test the waters and post one pic of each group with the review that I do (like I usually do) However, if WGI has an issue with it, I’ll address it then and probably pull the review down. We’ll see how I feel when I put it together later tonight or tomorrow.

oye!!! i feel awful for you... that camera is definitely a camera that WGIs policy clearly states that they ALLOW!!! how ridiculous!! i would love to see the photos you took though!

[PrfctTimeOfDay]

oye!!! i feel awful for you... that camera is definitely a camera that WGIs policy clearly states that they ALLOW!!! how ridiculous!! i would love to see the photos you took though!

Thank you! It was definitely a trying day. I'll send you a link to the pics via PM

Edited March 1, 2010 by PrfctTimeOfDay

[g.catera]

can you send them to me too please? thanks!

[ATXguard]

At some of our shows this season there have been signs that specifically said "NO PHOTOGRAPHY". Doesn't sound like that was your experience, but obviously there were problems going on at the show (as per your own admission), and they may have been erring on the side of safety (not performer safety, but safer to say no pictures, no videos).

Of course, no real idea, and we are only getting one side of the story here.

[PrfctTimeOfDay]

At some of our shows this season there have been signs that specifically said "NO PHOTOGRAPHY". Doesn't sound like that was your experience, but obviously there were problems going on at the show (as per your own admission), and they may have been erring on the side of safety (not performer safety, but safer to say no pictures, no videos).

Of course, no real idea, and we are only getting one side of the story here.

and again..you can see what WGI's policy is, per outlined in my above post (in fact I pulled it straight from their website ( http://www.wgi.org/contents/Legal-Information.html ). Let me reiterate, I was in complete compliance with THEIR policy and furthermore, why I made such an effort for them to produce documentation on what THEIR policy is. If WGI/Tom Hachmeister would like to tell their side of the story.. I'm all for it. You'd think that WGI would be happy with someone trying to advocate for their organization, but I can see why more and more are becoming disenfranchised. I know I am. ..in fact after I review this regional, it'll probably be my last review indefinitely.

Edited March 1, 2010 by PrfctTimeOfDay

[mr_mike09]

i was sitting dead center for all of world class with my camera taking pictures and didn't get stopped. so i am slightly outraged at the fact that they did that to only you. if you are going to enforce a non existant rule the at least be consistant about it.

p.s. i would appreciate if you could send me the link because it is pretty hard to take pictures when you are on the floor performing thanks!!

[boodles731]

I have a problem with anyone telling me I can't take pictures of my kids, or on the flipside, mandating that I don't have any rights to photos of them.

[My2GrlzinGuard]

and again..you can see what WGI's policy is, per outlined in my above post (in fact I pulled it straight from their website ( http://www.wgi.org/contents/Legal-Information.html ). Let me reiterate, I was in complete compliance with THEIR policy and furthermore, why I made such an effort for them to produce documentation on what THEIR policy is. If WGI/Tom Hachmeister would like to tell their side of the story.. I'm all for it. You'd think that WGI would be happy with someone trying to advocate for their organization, but I can see why more and more are becoming disenfranchised. I know I am. ..in fact after I review this regional, it'll probably be my last review indefinitely.

I can understand why you were frustrated - but I hope you re-consider this being your last review! I, along with many other parents, enjoy reading your thoughts; you always give every group compliments and accolades for the jobs they do so well for us. They work so hard every season, and your praise of their talents is the fresh comment they need after sometimes harsh critiques from the judges. This 'Burg' mom loves reading all of your reviews - PLEASE keep them coming!!

[TrishDish1002]

I am SO SORRY that this happened to you and that it was partially on behalf of CGP.

To the Mom who suggested that she had a problem with images of her child being owned - it may just take an onslaught of e-mails or phone call to WGI to resolve that!

It's unfortunate - they're still images that don't REALLY give anything away about the program (just a little hint!)

Thanks for all the great reviews and I too hope they continue (look me up in Dayton!)