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The problem with signing real names is that this a very sensitive activity where people almost never say anything negative in public (probably because parents would overhear) then carp like mad in private. In this kind of environment people are very thin-skinned and take umbrage at the least provocation, reading insults into all but the most innocuous statements. And nobody currently active can afford to risk stirring up resentments that could come back to bite them and units they could be associated with.

Was I really "making such strong statements" or is everybody just hypersensitive in this activity, possibly yourself included? Well, my original point was that people should stop blaming designers and judges for a certain amount of predictable sameness that has come to characterize many shows, especially World Class - the root cause is the current nature of the judging system. In World Class, judges have come to expect an endless demonstration of sky-high tosses - especially from units trying to make or stay in the top fifteen (the really top competitors are, of course, granted more artistic license). These consume lots of time, especially when, to demonstrate range and variety, they are done in all different sequences and patterns (demonstrating multiple skills simultaneously) . . . and then the show's over. OK, maybe that's a bit exaggerated. Throw in an ensemble flag closer.

A Class, despite a growing occurrence of six and seven rotation tosses, looks different because the judging score sheets emphasize demonstrating excellence in basic skills and even give much higher weighting to excellence over vocabulary. With judges not expecting as much stuff to be crammed into a show and not expecting the often frantic pacing of World Class, the designers have much more opportunity to program in highs and lows and extended ensemble work, etc. And they have a huge incentive to make their shows entertaining, appealing and memorable, in a conventional sense, because they need to make the judges remember them and pick THEM out of a huge pool of competitors whose basic skills often don't differ all that much.

I believe this was what the original poster was trying to get at. Here again I would note that the judging system and the private advice of good judges and successful designers are in close alignment in A Class, but they differ by actually reflecting reasonable public expectations and appreciation.

As I originally stated I agree with you, so no, I am not being hypersenstive to your discussion. There is a sameness in this activity with no incentive to try and do something different, expect for a few guards. Onyx this year is pushing new boundries and I applaud that.

In this world of blogging, comment pages on new sites etc., making anonymous statements and criticisms has become the norm and it is a shame....IMO....everyone wants their voice heard, but no one wants to take repsonsiblity for their words...this site included..

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Onyx this year is pushing new boundries and I applaud that.

I think Onyx is great on their equipment and they move beautifully. They're really doing amazing things! But I don't get the soundtrack. First of all, I'll have to leave the gym next time they perform because I can't listen to that again. Secondly, how is what they're doing musical when there's no music? And I wonder how a GE judge scores them when that's such an important part of the criteria.

Can you imagine rehearsing to that? "Hey, let's start at that part that goes 'grrrrrrrehhhhhgrrrrr'."

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scvwg has a very appealing approach in regards to trying to look at the activity in a new,fresh and creative way and i certainly appreciate and credit this years production.aestheticaly pleasing on every level. :tongue:

Edited by dugg
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I think Onyx is great on their equipment and they move beautifully. They're really doing amazing things! But I don't get the soundtrack. First of all, I'll have to leave the gym next time they perform because I can't listen to that again. Secondly, how is what they're doing musical when there's no music? And I wonder how a GE judge scores them when that's such an important part of the criteria.

Can you imagine rehearsing to that? "Hey, let's start at that part that goes 'grrrrrrrehhhhhgrrrrr'."

The soundtrack, if you listen to it is wind in the woods with the sound of a vortex in the middle. You have to applaud the members because their soundtrack has really no key moments that they are staying in synch just by practice. And also their work and movement isnt reflective of the soundtrack...the soundtrack is reflective of their work and movement. And what if they performed to total silence? would you penalize them in their GE score because they had no music? Its not about the actual soundtrack....its about the relevence of the soundtrack to the show. it works for this show :tongue:

Edited by mr_mike09
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okay my shows to watch this year are:

Blessed Sac (Innovative in my opinion)

Pride (fun to watch!!!)

NEI

Braddock

onyx

Juxtaposition (very suprised...in a good way)

Usurpation (really clean!!!!)

Miamisburg

Carmel (those ladies can work!!!!)

centerville

Trumbull

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The soundtrack, if you listen to it is wind in the woods with the sound of a vortex in the middle. You have to applaud the members because their soundtrack has really no key moments that they are staying in synch just by practice. And also their work and movement isnt reflective of the soundtrack...the soundtrack is reflective of their work and movement. And what if they performed to total silence? would you penalize them in their GE score because they had no music? Its not about the actual soundtrack....its about the relevence of the soundtrack to the show. it works for this show :tongue:

I certainly agree about the difficulty of performing with no discernable pulse, and I give them credit for that! I don't know about scoring them in GE; I'm not a judge. I know the sheets talk about musicality. Don't quite know how you would reconcile that...

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I certainly agree about the difficulty of performing with no discernable pulse, and I give them credit for that! I don't know about scoring them in GE; I'm not a judge. I know the sheets talk about musicality. Don't quite know how you would reconcile that...

The sheets talk about Visual Musicality - how the effects created relate to the soundtrack. In world class, you don't even technically need that, as you can choose to use the soundtrack as a background rather than a driving force to what you are doing.

Haven't seen the Onyx show yet (trying to wait until Dayton), but I may have to take a peak to see what everyone's talking about!

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The sheets talk about Visual Musicality - how the effects created relate to the soundtrack. In world class, you don't even technically need that, as you can choose to use the soundtrack as a background rather than a driving force to what you are doing.

Haven't seen the Onyx show yet (trying to wait until Dayton), but I may have to take a peak to see what everyone's talking about!

It's on the World sheet also

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Yes it is. But one person's interpretation of visual musicality is not necessarily the same as another person's. We have been told at symposiums that visual musicality in world class is not the same, nor is it judged the same as it is in A and Open classes, and that it is quite possible for a World guard to be successful doing something that an A and Open guard might not be successful when attempting, as it relates to visual musicality and design.

It's on the World sheet also
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Yes it is. But one person's interpretation of visual musicality is not necessarily the same as another person's. We have been told at symposiums that visual musicality in world class is not the same, nor is it judged the same as it is in A and Open classes, and that it is quite possible for a World guard to be successful doing something that an A and Open guard might not be successful when attempting, as it relates to visual musicality and design.

Very true as far as what you say about 1 persons interpretation to anothers but thats the same with anything subjective. It may not be the same but as a world guard designer I can tell you that maxing out a soundtrac is always on our tapes. Now how that is interperated could be another story. By the way liked your guard ATX good luck!

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